"Don't know my own strength" LOL

[hickstick]

Well closed out the MA deer season on Saturday, in frustration and joy. It was a balmy 15 degrees & snowing out which seemed warm compared to the 0 to 5 degrees a few days before. Even still, I layered up an donned my 1000g thinsulate boots and insulated overalls.

Went up a tree for the first using Stepp ladder steps, and my whoopie sling aider. Got the knot down easy but struggled with tying on too tight and not being able to cam the Stepp down.

The aider was service-able though not ideal. It would hang up on the large lugs of the boot sole making it hard to slip off a couple times (had to reach down to extricate my foot by hand).

Once I got to hunting tight I tried to set two of my last three steps as a platform. Got the first one set fine, but the second I could not cam down. Something wasn't right. The only time I could get it to cam over, one of the stand offs was not in contact with the tree at all. Then I realized what the problem was....i had yarded on the Stepp so hard to cam it over that I bent the left stand off. Ser pic below.

So the I dropped that bent step to the ground, lowered myself one step down and was finally able to cam over 2 steps for a platform. I climbed up and struggled getting my tether up....then struggled with my bow hanger. Then realized I forgot to clip my hand warmer muff to my haul line. I was sweaty and mad at myself for taking so long to get srt up, so In frustration I decided to take down the entire setup and hunt from the ground.

The snow was so crunchy that I made way too much racket to stalk anything unless it happened to be deaf. So I camped out under a large cedar to get out of the snow. Not 4 minutes later I see movement on the far side of the field...3 deer, ranged at just under 200 yards. Just a 'bit' too far for a recurve shot LOL. Had I brought the muzzleloader with variable scope, maybe, but I consider myself a bow hunter first.

So I ended my season watching 3 does walk outta my life. Better than not seeing anything at all.

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[Ontariofarmer]

Well closed out the MA deer season on Saturday, in frustration and joy. It was a balmy 15 degrees & snowing out which seemed warm compared to the 0 to 5 degrees a few days before. Even still, I layered up an donned my 1000g thinsulate boots and insulated overalls.

Went up a tree for the first using Stepp ladder steps, and my whoopie sling aider. Got the knot down easy but struggled with tying on too tight and not being able to cam the Stepp down.

The aider was service-able though not ideal. It would hang up on the large lugs of the boot sole making it hard to slip off a couple times (had to reach down to extricate my foot by hand).

Once I got to hunting tight I tried to set two of my last three steps as a platform. Got the first one set fine, but the second I could not cam down. Something wasn't right. The only time I could get it to cam over, one of the stand offs was not in contact with the tree at all. Then I realized what the problem was....i had yarded on the Stepp so hard to cam it over that I bent the left stand off. Ser pic below.

So the I dropped that bent step to the ground, lowered myself one step down and was finally able to cam over 2 steps for a platform. I climbed up and struggled getting my tether up....then struggled with my bow hanger. Then realized I forgot to clip my hand warmer muff to my haul line. I was sweaty and mad at myself for taking so long to get srt up, so In frustration I decided to take down the entire setup and hunt from the ground.

The snow was so crunchy that I made way too much racket to stalk anything unless it happened to be deaf. So I camped out under a large cedar to get out of the snow. Not 4 minutes later I see movement on the far side of the field...3 deer, ranged at just under 200 yards. Just a 'bit' too far for a recurve shot LOL. Had I brought the muzzleloader with variable scope, maybe, but I consider myself a bow hunter first.

So I ended my season watching 3 does walk outta my life. Better than not seeing anything at all.

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WE steps sound frustrating. That is why I put up with muddy pros or Dave t modified sticks. I have experienced those frustrating days. Dave T has good advice when he said take one method and perfect it. I like a super simple method too
I have to agree with you watching and seeing deer is almost as good as killing and eating deer.

Watched a buck 15 yards from me for several minutes but he would not take 3 more steps so I could kill him. A coyote had been within a few yards of where he stopped an hour before That was this years coolest hunting experience for me, even better than killing one doe for the freezer. No buck this year. I was close but no cigar on three bucks this fall

Deer season starts in 9 months. Turkey in mid April.


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[KartShot]

Isn't it funny how sometimes setups go super easy and you think your system is perfect. Then, the next time out everything goes wrong and leaves you a frustrated mess.

 

[hickstick]

This was my first experiment with the Stepps. (Other than a few minutes practicing on a tree in my yard)

I think I'm going to use my leverage sticks if I go out in January (in CT) and save the Stepps for just the platform. I can have 3 sticks with aiders up to 20+ feet in 5 min. I think even on a good day the Stepp ladder will take longer.

Then when it warms up I'll try climbing with the Stepps again.

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[redsquirrel]

This was my first experiment with the Stepps. (Other than a few minutes practicing on a tree in my yard)

I think I'm going to use my leverage sticks if I go out in January (in CT) and save the Stepps for just the platform. I can have 3 sticks with aiders up to 20+ feet in 5 min. I think even on a good day the Stepp ladder will take longer.

Then when it warms up I'll try climbing with the Stepps again.

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I used my stepps all season until November. I'm not sure I see myself using them when it starts getting as cold as it is now. I have to imagine it would be pretty hard to tie and untie that knot when it gets this cold.

 

[DaveT1963]

Folks another hunter fell to his death in late December. Please wear a lineman's belt and use sound safety decisions. This guy was in a climber and had his safety harness ON - just didn't hook it to the tree while climbing. As soon as my feet leave the ground I have a lineman's belt on, and it stays on until I attach and test my tether. late season everything works slower and after sitting in a tree for hours coming down can be down right risky as your muscles are cold. Don't stretch out too far when you have bulky clothing and it is cold. Keep your steps to reasonable distances no matter what system you use. One of the things I love about my single tether is that I can wrap it around the steps a few times to make the loop closer to the bottom steps.

 

[Boomah21]

Man hate to hear stuff like that.

A good reminder for all of us. Accidents can and do happen but these types of accidents are preventable. Be safe out there

 

[ImThere]

wow accidents can happen at any time be careful

 

[hickstick]

yup...always connected before I leave the ground.

climber = tether girth hitched to the tree and goes up as I do
hang ons with fixed climbing rails = all hung with linemans belt on, and attach a static line head height to the ground so the next time up i can slide a prussik up as I go
hang ons with leverage steps = all hung with linemans belt on, and attach a tether before climbing on stand and removing linemans
saddle = linemans all the way up until the tether is set and tested and sometimes even until I get all my gear up and hung as well.

my daughter needs a father.

 

[Apex7]

WE steps sound frustrating. That is why I put up with muddy pros or Dave t modified sticks. I have experienced those frustrating days. Dave T has good advice when he said take one method and perfect it. I like a super simple method too
I have to agree with you watching and seeing deer is almost as good as killing and eating deer.

Watched a buck 15 yards from me for several minutes but he would not take 3 more steps so I could kill him. A coyote had been within a few yards of where he stopped an hour before That was this years coolest hunting experience for me, even better than killing one doe for the freezer. No buck this year. I was close but no cigar on three bucks this fall

Deer season starts in 9 months. Turkey in mid April.


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I have the WE and 4 lonewolf sticks but I am thinking about buying muddy pro sticks. In your opinion do you like the pro steps and how many sticks do you use? Thanks

 

[tradesmen 4]

the reason the step bent is the rope was not under the step when you camed it over. Straighen it in a vice and you will be all set. Don't ask how I know what happened to bend it! Have fun Greg

 

[redsquirrel]

the reason the step bent is the rope was not under the step when you camed it over. Straighen it in a vice and you will be all set. Don't ask how I know what happened to bend it! Have fun Greg

That sounds like the likely problem. Not having the rope run under is a common problem with new stepp users.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I have the WE and 4 lonewolf sticks but I am thinking about buying muddy pro sticks. In your opinion do you like the pro steps and how many sticks do you use? Thanks

I can get 21 feet with 3 muddy pros and aiders. The double step is nice and the cam attachment is simple and the rope is quiet but they are heavy.
Lone wolf sticks could be shortened and you could add a rope attachment but the double step is nice.
A shorter stick will pack easier.
I think Dave T shows how he simply attaches his modified helium sticks to his pack and I do not think they are much bulker than WE step and certainly less frustrating to attach to a tree.I carry my sticks like Dave does.
Boudreaux has a method of carrying muddy sticks that looks simple and not frustrating as well.

I like Dave T's sticks and have just modified my helium sticks to shorten them - they already had a versa button and a rope but I now have cam cleats to attach to them as a winter project.
Dave T modified helium sticks are light quiet and have two steps but no cam cleat so they are slightly harder to attach than a cam cleat but significantly lighter than muddy pro's. Presently I think his set up is the best available now. They are lighter than muddy pros, they have double steps, they have a quiet simple rope attachment and they are slightly longer than muddy pros. Daves aider attachment is very simple and would work well.
I used a six step aider on my muddy pros this year which may not be as safe or simple as a Red aider or a Dave T aider but I had no problem. That said I will use some variation of a Red, BC, Dave T aiders for next year with only one or two steps. A multi step aider can kick out but so can a single step aider - I have had it happen - but with practice and maintaining the proper climbing form it is not a problem for me any more.
I personally would wait and see if Dan from the hunting beast comes out with his new sticks. You will not find any muddy pros to buy now anyway.
Dan's sticks will be lighter still and you can add some sort of rope attachment. Dan's sticks are supposed to be 1.4 pounds. They will be the best if all I have heard is accurate. I know Dewey loved his prototype sticks this year.
Also Boudreaux said muddy is coming out with a changed stick this year maybe they will be better.
IMO the best option and I have tried most of them - are Dave T sticks or shortened helium sticks with a rope attachment. That will likely change soon. So wait until July and then decide.

 

[ImThere]

How much do the modified helium sticks weigh? On an actual scale?


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[Ontariofarmer]

How much do the modified helium sticks weigh? On an actual scale?


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I do not have a scale. But Dave T said three sticks including all the ropes and I think his bungie cords are less than 7 pounds. Muddy pros which are shorter will weigh almost 9 pounds. A Ronstan medium cam cleat made of carbon fiber will handle rope from 3 to 12 mm and weighs 1.8 ozs.
So if I replace the versa button and reduce my rope size from 8 mm to 5 mm a cam cleat is almost no difference compared to a versa button. There are 5.5 mm ropes with 22 kn of breaking strength. The same strength as my 8mm static rope on my versa buttons.

So to answer the question... Dave T says less than 7 pounds for 3 complete. Plus one aider.

Dans sticks will put me under 5 pounds.

 

[Apex7]

I can get 21 feet with 3 muddy pros and aiders. The double step is nice and the cam attachment is simple and the rope is quiet but they are heavy.
Lone wolf sticks could be shortened and you could add a rope attachment but the double step is nice.
A shorter stick will pack easier.
I think Dave T shows how he simply attaches his modified helium sticks to his pack and I do not think they are much bulker than WE step and certainly less frustrating to attach to a tree.I carry my sticks like Dave does.
Boudreaux has a method of carrying muddy sticks that looks simple and not frustrating as well.

I like Dave T's sticks and have just modified my helium sticks to shorten them - they already had a versa button and a rope but I now have cam cleats to attach to them as a winter project.
Dave T modified helium sticks are light quiet and have two steps but no cam cleat so they are slightly harder to attach than a cam cleat but significantly lighter than muddy pro's. Presently I think his set up is the best available now. They are lighter than muddy pros, they have double steps, they have a quiet simple rope attachment and they are slightly longer than muddy pros. Daves aider attachment is very simple and would work well.
I used a six step aider on my muddy pros this year which may not be as safe or simple as a Red aider or a Dave T aider but I had no problem. That said I will use some variation of a Red, BC, Dave T aiders for next year with only one or two steps. A multi step aider can kick out but so can a single step aider - I have had it happen - but with practice and maintaining the proper climbing form it is not a problem for me any more.
I personally would wait and see if Dan from the hunting beast comes out with his new sticks. You will not find any muddy pros to buy now anyway.
Dan's sticks will be lighter still and you can add some sort of rope attachment. Dan's sticks are supposed to be 1.4 pounds. They will be the best if all I have heard is accurate. I know Dewey loved his prototype sticks this year.
Also Boudreaux said muddy is coming out with a changed stick this year maybe they will be better.
IMO the best option and I have tried most of them - are Dave T sticks or shortened helium sticks with a rope attachment. That will likely change soon. So wait until July and then decide.

I did contacted Muddy and they told me that the pro sticks would be available in the spring. They said I would get an e-mail when they are available. I am going to see what comes out at Archery trade show.

 

[ImThere]

@DaveT1963 What is the actual weight and dimensions of your stick?

 

[hickstick]

the reason the step bent is the rope was not under the step when you camed it over. Straighen it in a vice and you will be all set. Don't ask how I know what happened to bend it! Have fun Greg

do you mean I did not have the stand offs high enough over the rope around the back of the tree? or that the rope was in the wrong position where it comes off the rung of the step? I was trying Andy's 'feed the rope through the first step method' of setting the platform steps at the same level, so I'm sure the rope around the tree was beneath the level of the standoffs. but at that point I was already frustrated, so I could have goofed I guess.

are you sure about straightening and reusing? I'd be worried about metal fatigue...

 

[hickstick]

@DaveT1963 What is the actual weight and dimensions of your stick?

my set of three leverage sticks (full length-three steps, versa-button/rope mod, with amsteel ropes and aider weigh 7.25 #s.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

my set of three leverage sticks (full length-three steps, versa-button/rope mod, with amsteel ropes and aider weigh 7.25 #s.

http://www.saddlehunter.com/communi...my-helium-stick-system.5093/page-2#post-69259

My modified helium sticks are right at 2#s each - 7 pounds includes my one long foot aider, and two bungies and 3 modified sticks.

quote from the thread above by DaveT1963

8.5 sounds right for 3 Muddy Pros. My aiders are super light and don't add much weight at all - probably 6-8 oz. total for all three.
Quote from G2

So muddy sticks with aiders and bungie cords are probably over 9 pounds