Eliminate wobble in Double Steps on Lonewolf stick?

[Labonte.r]

It'll still wobble with the stealth strips. Use the bottom hole where the original lone wolf step stop used to be, mark the double step, drill the double step and use the original lone wolf round hex bolt as your bottom bolt to stop wobble. You'll have a half moon shape on the bottom of the double step where the round hex head fits into when tight. Still doesn't completely eliminate it but at least they won't completely roatate if they become a little loose with the 1 bolt. Hope that makes sense.

I’ve thought of this as well even a small notch at bottom of double step to catch a second bolt would work. Could also have a local welder throw a couple beads on each step

 

[DanO]

Quite a while back we went through a similar discussion regarding DoubleSteps being too tight. Due to variances in tubes and coatings on the tubes, we opened up the channel on the back from a dead on 1" to a couple thousands over. I was working on a customer's XOP stick recently and had to file every single DoubleStep as they still didn't fit. Tube thickness seems to be all over and they don't hold to the same tolerances we do. We've thought of coming up with some shim material that would allow using one or two for thinner sticks but haven't explored that yet. Or we go back to 1" exactly and just suggest filing if they don't fit.

Hate to see examples like this where they are wobbly and adding an extra screw back in isn't what I'd want to suggest. Open to suggestions, this forum has a lot of good ideas and maybe we can come up with a better solution together. One other thought we had was to make two versions - 1" true and 1" +, but that's just another item to stock and how many people have calipers to check their sticks ahead of time.

 

[Labonte.r]

Hey Dan as like you’ve stated there is no way for you to take into account for the tubings actual dimensions different quality, brands, batches etc will all have different dimensions. Not your fault at all and imo would be counterproductive to have bunch of different sizes to make and stock for you. I know some people might not want the extra work but slightly undersized would be better than to large. It would require handfitting by end consumer though. Im still playing with tubing dimensions and such so haven’t even bothered with a final product yet but I’m thoroughly happy with everything coming outa your shop by the way. I almost got at least one of everything you sell at this point My wife isn’t as thrilled tho sorry.

 

[Jtaylor]

Quite a while back we went through a similar discussion regarding DoubleSteps being too tight. Due to variances in tubes and coatings on the tubes, we opened up the channel on the back from a dead on 1" to a couple thousands over. I was working on a customer's XOP stick recently and had to file every single DoubleStep as they still didn't fit. Tube thickness seems to be all over and they don't hold to the same tolerances we do. We've thought of coming up with some shim material that would allow using one or two for thinner sticks but haven't explored that yet. Or we go back to 1" exactly and just suggest filing if they don't fit.

Hate to see examples like this where they are wobbly and adding an extra screw back in isn't what I'd want to suggest. Open to suggestions, this forum has a lot of good ideas and maybe we can come up with a better solution together. One other thought we had was to make two versions - 1" true and 1" +, but that's just another item to stock and how many people have calipers to check their sticks ahead of time.

The hole is already in the sticks, do you think a machined half moon shape chamfered at the bottom of the double step would hurt the integrity of the step for the Lone Wolf sticks? I've had no issue yet....wouldn't be a one size fits all deal though. I have no issues with your products and don't mind a little customization to fit what I need. Thanks for the one stop shop! Very handy!

 

[Stevey220]

DanO, the issue is not in the steps. You can't control the variance and tolerances that each stick manufacturer keeps. You trying to accommodate by making different sizes would be like chasing a tiger's tail. I'd prefer that you keep your steps the way they are and focus on the only variable that you have control over which is your tolerance. I like the shim idea and I have some viable ideas on how that can be used to compensate for the tube variance. I will play with that and let you know.

I also think I have a cool idea for a future step design that you might like and could also help with this issue. I'll reach out to you to discuss.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[DanO]

The hole is already in the sticks, do you think a machined half moon shape chamfered at the bottom of the double step would hurt the integrity of the step for the Lone Wolf sticks? I've had no issue yet....

No, not at all.

 

[mattfish]

I agree DanO’s stuff is top notch.

I had a little wobble in my double steps as well. I too believed it was the rounded edge of my stick.

One wrap of duct tape and I needed rubber mallet to set it back on step. No wobble.

I have learned (here) that sticks especially those I have altered are going to be an item that require regular maintenance and inspections. Something I kinda have taken for granted in the past.

 

[Stevey220]

I belive I fixed the issue I was having. Sorry for the long write up but below are my observations and solutions that I used. I'm not an engineer or designer and I can't put any guarantees on any of this. Please take it for what it's worth and hopefully it helps you if you are having the same issue.

The wobble problem I believe is exclusive to LW sticks because of its design. Can't say that they are flaws but I believe it's because of the rounded edges of the tube and it's ability for the standoffs to rotate. With the step attached to the tube, it's very visible that the rounded corner has zero contact and only a tiny fraction of the the step channel sidewalls edge is in contact with the side of the tube. With the bolt and nut freshly tightened, it's enough to keeping the step to a wiggle (due to mentioned tolerance issue). Problem is, after multiple uses with the standoffs rotating, the nut gradually starts to back off the bolt. Even faster with old nylon washers. It backs off enough that the small amount of edge between the step and tube is now lost and the wiggle starts to become a wobble. I also noticed that the rounded corner of the tube actually starts to act as a ramp to help push the step away even further from the tube when under load. This is allowing tension to be put on the nut and bolt head preventing them from spinning under load so the nut is backing out more every time the step wobbles back and forth (ie everytime you step on it). The wobble gets increasingly worse to the point the step will become a propeller. Using the top step as a platform significantly speeds up the process. I tried and managed to get it to dangerously close to becoming a propeller within about 30min. I replaced all the bolts, nutz, and nylon washers. Along with the wiggle fix below, the steps are currently holding solid with zero movement.

The wiggle is, as mentioned by others, due to the variance in tube size and can be fixed with tape, paint, or whatever other materials to fill the gap. Best is it needs to dry ridged and keep it's form and size once dried. It's also best to be only on the sides where the tub and the step channel sidewalls touch. Not on the face of the tube that meets the step as doing so, I believe, might lead to the wobble issue. How long this last will probably depend on the durability of the material used to fill the gap and making sure the nylon washers are in good working order.. I used waterproof wood glue thinking it would be a good non permanent experiment. It worked out very well for me so I will leave it for now.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Cnilles]

Bringing this back as I just got some steps and modded some old LW sticks.
I noticed a bit of “spinning” due to the rounded edges of the LW tube.

Other than occasional inspecting and tightening, what are everyone’s ways to fix the issue (which is a LW issue)?

im toying with the idea of sharpening the corners with a file. Maybe epoxy? I’m open to other ideas.
Thanks!

 

[KYhunter66]

Bringing this back as I just got some steps and modded some old LW sticks.
I noticed a bit of “spinning” due to the rounded edges of the LW tube.

Other than occasional inspecting and tightening, what are everyone’s ways to fix the issue (which is a LW issue)?

im toying with the idea of sharpening the corners with a file. Maybe epoxy? I’m open to other ideas.
Thanks!

I had the same problem with that! The only thing that would really fix it is new tubes from DanO. The beast sticks have 2 bolts for that reason and are really tite to the steps with square tubes. The LW tubes are not made for dubblestep unless you could contact novix they may sell the steps for the new dubblestep they have maybe they are made different.

 

[Cnilles]

The lone wolf sticks are mentioned specifically on the EWO site for comparability. There’s even a special bolt provided.

I already finished up modding my LW’s so I’m not yet wanting to buy new tubes, buy new brackets, etc just yet.

what I might do is put two of those little hex bolts right under each step to prevent it from “propeller-ing” just in case it comes loose one day.

 

[Apex7]

The original LW bolts don't normally have enough thread to tighten down at all. The issue is likely related to not having the plastic/nylon washers in the right spot. Since the standoffs rotate, it causes the bolt to loosen. Need the plastic washer under the bolt head to allow the rotation.

I bought the double steps with the longer bolts but still had some wiggle and the washer is in place.

 

[KYhunter66]

I bought the double steps with the longer bolts but still had some wiggle and the washer is in place.

The new novix dubblestep probably have a step that fits around the stick more. Not much you can do with the round edges of the LW tubes IMO!

 

[Spartan]

Somebody mentioned JB Weld or epoxy earlier. Normally that would be a terrible choice for fastening metals under load, but may work well in this situation. I wouldn't use any of the liquid epoxies, but an epoxy putty might work well to fill in the extra space left by the radius on the tubes. A bit down each square inside corner of the step slot before installation would fill in the voids left by the radius of the tube once attached to the stick. Tighten the step down with the fasteners and the epoxy will squeeze out leaving the void-fill behind. Should provide a much better fit. In this instance it would be acting more like loc-tite than it would be like glue/epoxy. If the metal is fairly smooth, you could probably also pop them off without too much effort once the fasteners are removed...provided you only used a minimal amount of epoxy to fill the voids and you didn't let it ooze out everywhere.

Not a perfect solution, but I would certainly try it if I was in that situation.

 

[KYhunter66]

Somebody mentioned JB Weld or epoxy earlier. Normally that would be a terrible choice for fastening metals under load, but may work well in this situation. I wouldn't use any of the liquid epoxies, but an epoxy putty might work well to fill in the extra space left by the radius on the tubes. A bit down each square inside corner of the step slot before installation would fill in the voids left by the radius of the tube once attached to the stick. Tighten the step down with the fasteners and the epoxy will squeeze out leaving the void-fill behind. Should provide a much better fit. In this instance it would be acting more like loc-tite than it would be like glue/epoxy. If the metal is fairly smooth, you could probably also pop them off without too much effort once the fasteners are removed...provided you only used a minimal amount of epoxy to fill the voids and you didn't let it ooze out everywhere.

Not a perfect solution, but I would certainly try it if I was in that situation.

I just wouldn't trust glue or JB weld it's not worth it to me! If the step turns and your 18ft up it would suck even with a LM belt on trust me it hurts!