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Emergency Descent?

37. Thirty-Freaking-Seven videos I’ve watched until I finally found a video that actually describes HOW an ATC works. Sorry if this seems elementary to some of you guys.

Emrah



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Watch from 6:50. It should be very easy. Notice her rigging, I mean her rappel setup. The ATC is on an extension. Your saddle bridge should be perfect. This extension is vitally necessary to prevent the prussic knot from hitting the ATC. Always use the prussic or some autoblock loop to hold the line down and carabiner it to your linemans loop or bridge attachment loop, whatever keeps it from reaching the ATC. Practice from a tree in your yard at 4 feet up until you get the hang of it. ALWAYS USE THE AUTOBLOCK (PRUSSIC).
 
I’m also new to this.

Just to be clear, the prusik knot should be attached with a carabiner separately to keep it from the ATC?

Would something like a VT prusik in this video work?

 
Yes. A VT prusik will work great. It can be used to tie a Valdotain Tresse , thus the VT moniker. A VT can be released under load more easily than a symetrical prusik knot. You can also use it to tie an autoblock or a French prusik which is just winding the line around the rope and clipping both ends with a caribiner. I learned all this from watching Youtube. The official mountaineering videos on Youtube are great.
 
emrah.oruc.7 said:
Agree. That’s why I’m asking. I’m trying to understand the actual mechanics of what is going on. Would you suggest a trip to REI and consult with someone?

Emrah


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REI is offering climbing workshops and classes. I highly recommend taking one of those or get an experienced climber giving you a 101. In any way, safety is much more important than weight concerns and bulk concerns. I don’t follow the weight cutting motivated approach. Did anybody ever think about loosing 10 pounds of body weight instead of sacrificing safety gear? I’m always thinking like that when a friend is going for another, lighter bicycle... just loose three pounds, is cheaper and healthier. (Not talking about a bike pro here...)
 
Regarding the idea of carrying a couple screw-in steps, or even tie-ons for that matter, how would you ever install them down at foot level and below? I don't think that dog will hunt. At least I'm pretty certain I can't perform that maneuver!

Much better to carry a loop of tubular nylon or a length of rope to be girth hitched to the tree as a foot support and used in combo with your tether and lineman's belt to slowly inch your way down to safety.
 
bj139 said:
Yes. A VT prusik will work great. It can be used to tie a Valdotain Tresse , thus the VT moniker. A VT can be released under load more easily than a symetrical prusik knot. You can also use it to tie an autoblock or a French prusik which is just winding the line around the rope and clipping both ends with a caribiner. I learned all this from watching Youtube. The official mountaineering videos on Youtube are great.
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So it looks like you could tie in your VT prusik either below or above your ATC.

Would it be better to anchor your back up prusik on your right side loop on your saddle if you are right handed? Could you also anchor the backup on your bridge?

Thanks in advance, trying to learn this, I think it's a great method for emergency descent.
 
Soonlobo said:
So it looks like you could tie in your VT prusik either below or above your ATC.

Would it be better to anchor your back up prusik on your right side loop on your saddle if you are right handed? Could you also anchor the backup on your bridge?

Thanks in advance, trying to learn this, I think it's a great method for emergency descent.
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NO. The job of the friction knot isnt to hold your weight, but to act as your brake hand, holding the tail end of the rope in the correct position(brake position) for the Tube style belay/wrap device(ATC, whatever).
 
Vtbow said:
NO. The job of the friction knot isnt to hold your weight, but to act as your brake hand, holding the tail end of the rope in the correct position(brake position) for the Tube style belay/wrap device(ATC, whatever).
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I apologize for my ignorance, but is your point that the VT prusik should be below your ATC only? The video I posted showed the VT prusik above.

Please clarify, and again I apologize, I know very little about this and am trying to get it correct.
 
Soonlobo said:
I apologize for my ignorance, but is your point that the VT prusik should be below your ATC only? The video I posted showed the VT prusik above.

Please clarify, and again I apologize, I know very little about this and am trying to get it correct.
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This video is wrong, period. The autoblock is a much preferred knot. and yes, it should be below. Again, this is why you should go get help from someone who knows what they are doing, not watch youtube videos. In this application the friction knot takes the full weight of the climber. In order to decent you will have to be using both hands at the same time. one to man the brake and one to man the VT. if you slip, get stuck on something, have to push around a ledge or limb and need a hand, somethings gotta give. When descending with it correctly the hand that is tending the friction knot is on the brake strand of the rope already. Half as much to manage, and you're not reaching over the device, which is feeding rope into it. get a shirt, sleeve, sweatshirt drawstring or somethign else stuck in that belay device while you reach over and you better hope you know what you're doing.

Please get help from a knowledgeable professional in person.
 
Vtbow said:
This video is wrong, period. The autoblock is a much preferred knot. and yes, it should be below. Again, this is why you should go get help from someone who knows what they are doing, not watch youtube videos. In this application the friction knot takes the full weight of the climber. In order to decent you will have to be using both hands at the same time. one to man the brake and one to man the VT. if you slip, get stuck on something, have to push around a ledge or limb and need a hand, somethings gotta give. When descending with it correctly the hand that is tending the friction knot is on the brake strand of the rope already. Half as much to manage, and you're not reaching over the device, which is feeding rope into it. get a shirt, sleeve, sweatshirt drawstring or somethign else stuck in that belay device while you reach over and you better hope you know what you're doing.

Please get help from a knowledgeable professional in person.
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Trust me, I will not do this without instruction. I have gotten through 55 years so far, don't intend to end that streak;)

At this point I am leaning toward linesman belt/tree tether/5 step aider for emergency descent. I've practiced that. But the more information one has the greater the chance of survival...:sunglasses:
 
Soonlobo said:
Trust me, I will not do this without instruction. I have gotten through 55 years so far, don't intend to end that streak;)

At this point I am leaning toward linesman belt/tree tether/5 step aider for emergency descent. I've practiced that. But the more information one has the greater the chance of survival...:sunglasses:
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I would try the ATC just one foot above the ground to get the feel for it. Larger diameter rope needs less breaking force than smaller diameter rope. I practiced in my back yard just standing on tip toes and pulling in the slack rope then descending to sitting. I learned about the ATC extension myself doing that since my prussic was getting pulled near the ATC. Later I saw it on Youtube from mountaineering professional videos. I found I could easily hold 11mm rope with my control hand but 8mm rope was difficult so I saw the need of the autoblock at that point. The autoblock above the ATC takes the full weight of the climber. Below it takes less since the ATC is supporting some. I only trust Youtube videos shown by accredited mountaineering professionals since any yahoo can post on Youtube and even may make it look good.

Once tip toes seemed good I ascended with my Ropeman and a sling to 10 feet and rappelled down with the ATC.

Just the other day, I was accosted by some borough workers about dangerous activity in THEIR park. They are in the truck near the top of the photo. I am hanging in the tree at 15 feet.
 
You definitely want to backup your ATC with an autoblock (sterling 13.5” hollowblock) is a great option. Nice to know you can easily stop hands free.

Hands on lesson from a pro would have you on your way in no time.

646937738a5e2f55b37f9737da30d836.jpg



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Hi all, also brand new to saddle for hunting, Mantis kit on the way. So I found this video below.
To keep it simple for me, to start to practice when my saddle arrives, is this reasonable.
I would order a 30 foot approved climbing rope, with a spliced end, and also a ATC Guide for previously mentioned rope.
Such would be carried in a back pack on hunts. For an emergency, rope could be girth hitched to tree, attached to ATC, etc.

 
weekender21 said:
You definitely want to backup your ATC with an autoblock (sterling 13.5” hollowblock) is a great option. Nice to know you can easily stop hands free.

Hands on lesson from a pro would have you on your way in no time.

646937738a5e2f55b37f9737da30d836.jpg



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Thank you. This picture is worth a thousand words!
 
I watched another video by a professional climber that combined with the picture from weekender21 cleared up many of my questions.

Thanks for all the info everyone!
 
Can’t remember the name of the video but there is one on YouTube that describes the different common friction hitches and shows how to tie each. I prefer the autoblock for the purpose of descending from SRT with an ATC.


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