Heavy Arrows

[Flgunner]

I agree. I was asking in sense of knowing there’s no concrete answer. I think shot placement and having whatever on the end of your arrow being razor sharp is crucial. I know the craze is super heavy and high foc but I really believe the kill to loose ratio won’t change much overall for Bowhunting as a whole due to the most important factor of shot placement will always play a bigger part in recovery than arrow weight. If you put a sharp anything through both lungs, it will die.

 

[Hunter260]

I agree. I was asking in sense of knowing there’s no concrete answer. I think shot placement and having whatever on the end of your arrow being razor sharp is crucial. I know the craze is super heavy and high foc but I really believe the kill to loose ratio won’t change much overall for Bowhunting as a whole due to the most important factor of shot placement will always play a bigger part in recovery than arrow weight. If you put a sharp anything through both lungs, it will die.

I fully agree. Part of me worries about the future of bow hunting because there will be in future seasons an over confidence in ones gear. Bow hunting differs from rifle hunting in the fact that we trade confidence in our gear for confidence in ourselves. When rifle hunting, you can be less confident in your woodsmanship, stealth, and shot selection basically because with a 30-06 and a 12 power scope if you can see it you can kill it. That is absolutely not the case with a bow, and everyone who has hunted knows this.

I CAN PROMISE YOU NOW.

This season there will be some new hunters who watch every ranch fairy video, build a 720 grain arrow and screw a $40 single bevel on there and head to the woods with the utmost confidence that every shot will lead to a 20 yard crime scene of a blood trail and a quick recovery. What some of these people will not do is perfectly tune their bow, or shoot hundreds of arrows from hunting height/awkward positions. Several of these overconfident hunters will undoubtedly take a quartering to shot when a little patience would provide a perfect broadside target.

The perfect example of this is the traditional archery hunter. These guys are masters of woodsmanship, shot selection, instinctively ranging a target and knowing their own capabilities. What they do not have is the confidence of knowing that they have the deadliest weapon in the woods.

 

[Deerhunter81]

It’s always going to be the hunters responsibility to make sure they along with their equipment are ready for the shot. That includes tuning their setups, practicing any shot that may be presented, and the knowledge of knowing when they should just let the game animal walk. We can’t control that for someone else. We can only help educated others who are looking for advice with things that we know and have used successfully.

 

[Deerhunter81]

There are my pins gaps for 20, 30, and 40 yards on my fast Eddie and my 50 yard group with my 40 (moved down to 50 yards). Don’t laugh...I shot .019 pins due to my eyes not being as good as they use to be! This late in the evening especially. I do find it interesting that my gap between 30-40 and 40-50 to be nearly identical. I’m not saying my bow shoots flat, but the trajectory is really not bad at all! If anyone needs help, I will do everything I can to help you that I can. I have even mailed gear to guys in need! Just want to add to a group who is always willing to help each other! Enjoy, and good luck to all this season! Not sure why they are sideways, my apologies!

 

[Squatch]

I fully agree. Part of me worries about the future of bow hunting because there will be in future seasons an over confidence in ones gear. Bow hunting differs from rifle hunting in the fact that we trade confidence in our gear for confidence in ourselves. When rifle hunting, you can be less confident in your woodsmanship, stealth, and shot selection basically because with a 30-06 and a 12 power scope if you can see it you can kill it. That is absolutely not the case with a bow, and everyone who has hunted knows this.

I CAN PROMISE YOU NOW.

This season there will be some new hunters who watch every ranch fairy video, build a 720 grain arrow and screw a $40 single bevel on there and head to the woods with the utmost confidence that every shot will lead to a 20 yard crime scene of a blood trail and a quick recovery. What some of these people will not do is perfectly tune their bow, or shoot hundreds of arrows from hunting height/awkward positions. Several of these overconfident hunters will undoubtedly take a quartering to shot when a little patience would provide a perfect broadside target.

The perfect example of this is the traditional archery hunter. These guys are masters of woodsmanship, shot selection, instinctively ranging a target and knowing their own capabilities. What they do not have is the confidence of knowing that they have the deadliest weapon in the woods.

No reason to worry about the future of bow hunting. The younger crowd doesn’t listen to most of the older crowd anyways
They will all practice
And their failure will be a result of their own doing

Every one of us is speculating according to the next critic that reads the posts before theirs

That being said
Shoot what you want
If you don’t like what someone else is shooting then too bad
Not your decision
Or your problem

Ranch fairy or not
720 grain arrow or not
If you haven’t tried it, don’t speak against it
If you have actually spent your time and money on a particular item then we would love to hear your results


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[Swingin' Free]

There is a difference between KE and Momentum. KE doesn't blast through a shoulder, that would be Momentum.

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Twice won't hurt i suppose

What's the difference between momentum and kinetic energy?

When it comes to bowhunting, kinetic energy gets all the love. You can find scads of articles extolling its virtues and charts describing its professed impact.Momentum, by comparison, is the genius, recluse cousin few people talk about, but who has a cult following. It’s punk rock before that...

www.lancasterarchery.com

 

[Flgunner]

There is a difference between KE and Momentum. KE doesn't blast through a shoulder, that would be Momentum.

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Twice won't hurt i suppose

What's the difference between momentum and kinetic energy?

When it comes to bowhunting, kinetic energy gets all the love. You can find scads of articles extolling its virtues and charts describing its professed impact.Momentum, by comparison, is the genius, recluse cousin few people talk about, but who has a cult following. It’s punk rock before that...

www.lancasterarchery.com

That’s a good read. Out of curiosity I searched the web for a couple of places to calculate the two and compare the numbers side by side. According to the article there is no quantitative value of how much momentum it takes to puts through an animal (or what type). But we can assume more is better. Here’s the results I had by entering my bows ibo and arrow length with different weight arrows. 420 grain (290 fps) and 650 grain (204 fps) arrow. Chart shows remaining KE and momentum in 10 yd increments. As far as maintaining any of it I believe that’s where sharpness will be paramount.
Bow specs I used is My 70 lb 29” 321 IBO. Hoyt Alpha Max

 

[heretic]

That’s a good read. Out of curiosity I searched the web for a couple of places to calculate the two and compare the numbers side by side. According to the article there is no quantitative value of how much momentum it takes to puts through an animal (or what type). But we can assume more is better. Here’s the results I had by entering my bows ibo and arrow length with different weight arrows. 420 grain (290 fps) and 650 grain (204 fps) arrow. Chart shows remaining KE and momentum in 10 yd increments. As far as maintaining any of it I believe that’s where sharpness will be paramount.
Bow specs I used is My 70 lb 29” 321 IBO. Hoyt Alpha Max

If you really want to geek out on the physics of arrow penetration, checkout episode 63 of the lethal podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4sSkZJORdkL5aX5Vn7Bb5f

 

[Swingin' Free]

That’s a good read. Out of curiosity I searched the web for a couple of places to calculate the two and compare the numbers side by side. According to the article there is no quantitative value of how much momentum it takes to puts through an animal (or what type). But we can assume more is better. Here’s the results I had by entering my bows ibo and arrow length with different weight arrows. 420 grain (290 fps) and 650 grain (204 fps) arrow. Chart shows remaining KE and momentum in 10 yd increments. As far as maintaining any of it I believe that’s where sharpness will be paramount.
Bow specs I used is My 70 lb 29” 321 IBO. Hoyt Alpha Max

You're gonna want to shoot through a chono.. I You're not getting even close to the IBO.
Know the "real" numbers to get accurate stats
My bows IBO is above 320. I'm shooting 480 grains at 260 fs/s, .544 slug. Thats plenty for most animals

Kinetic Energy and Momentum Calculator | Realtree Camo

This Realtree calculator calculates your kinetic energy and momentum for you.

www.realtree.com

 

[Weldabeast]

That’s a good read. Out of curiosity I searched the web for a couple of places to calculate the two and compare the numbers side by side. According to the article there is no quantitative value of how much momentum it takes to puts through an animal (or what type). But we can assume more is better. Here’s the results I had by entering my bows ibo and arrow length with different weight arrows. 420 grain (290 fps) and 650 grain (204 fps) arrow. Chart shows remaining KE and momentum in 10 yd increments. As far as maintaining any of it I believe that’s where sharpness will be paramount.
Bow specs I used is My 70 lb 29” 321 IBO. Hoyt Alpha Max

I have a hard time believing these charts.....on ur 600gr the chart is saying there is an almost 2ft difference in aim point 20-30 and over 4ft 20-40....I have not seen anything even close to this in real life

 

[Flgunner]

You're gonna want to shoot through a chono.. I You're not getting even close to the IBO.
Know the "real" numbers to get accurate stats
My bows IBO is above 320. I'm shooting 480 grains at 260 fs/s, .544 slug. Thats plenty for most animals

Kinetic Energy and Momentum Calculator | Realtree Camo

This Realtree calculator calculates your kinetic energy and momentum for you.

www.realtree.com

The arrow speed for the 420 grain arrow is from my chrono. Caldwell Precision Chrono. Also matches very close to every online calculator. It is my real arrow speed out of the bow.

 

[Squatch]

I have a hard time believing these charts.....on ur 600gr the chart is saying there is an almost 2ft difference in aim point 20-30 and over 4ft 20-40....I have not seen anything even close to this in real life

Agreed


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[Deerhunter81]

I have a hard time believing these charts.....on ur 600gr the chart is saying there is an almost 2ft difference in aim point 20-30 and over 4ft 20-40....I have not seen anything even close to this in real life

I thought the same but I have never measured....but I can’t see 161” of drop at 60 yards, that would be over a 13 foot drop in arrow flight.

 

[Swingin' Free]

The arrow speed for the 420 grain arrow is from my chrono. Caldwell Precision Chrono. Also matches very close to every online calculator. It is my real arrow speed out of the bow.

You said you used the IBO, now you used a chrono? I'm confused

 

[Flgunner]

I have a hard time believing these charts.....on ur 600gr the chart is saying there is an almost 2ft difference in aim point 20-30 and over 4ft 20-40....I have not seen anything even close to this in real life

That’s just the numbers it put out. Not saying they’re right but it’s the only calculator I found to do KE and momentum side by side. Wasn’t paying much attention to the drop

 

[Flgunner]

You said you used the IBO, now you used a chrono? I'm confused

I’m saying my Bows IBO is 321 fps, I have personally shot mine through my chrono and the reading is 290. I have nothing on string but a d loop and peep. I have not chrono The 650 grain . Used arrow speed calculation online for the info there. With the same specs from my bow.

 

[Weldabeast]

If the numbers are off in 1 row who's to say they aren't off in the others

 

[Deerhunter81]

That’s just the numbers it put out. Not saying they’re right but it’s the only calculator I found to do KE and momentum side by side. Wasn’t paying much attention to the drop

The KE and momentum numbers are probably correct. The arrow drop could be, I just can’t imagine that much arrow drop. Not saying it’s wrong, just hard for me to imagine that.

 

[Flgunner]

Archery calculator.com is where I got the speed for the 650 grain arrow based off my bows IBO of 321 and 29” draw at 70#, and if you go to best crossbow source they have an arrow ballistics calculator. Put in speed out of the bow, weight, and arrow length, # of fletching and their height. It then makes the calculation. The vertical drop does look like a lot. In the charts but I was only looking at KE and momentum. Sights take care of the drop.

 

[Flgunner]

If the numbers are off in 1 row who's to say they aren't off in the others

I agree with you there. I did use Realtree.com KE and momentum calculator and the initial numbers match the chart.