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How To Use MadRock Safeguard

heretic said:
Just as a side note: according to the manual, the safeguard should not have a "braking device" or "knot" on the braking side of the rope. This has also been discussed previously on this forum. The device is designed with an amount of give before locking up, shock loading it with no give may cause it to fail (although to be fair you shouldn't be shock loading it anyways). Take from that what you will.
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It actually says a knot or a “mechanical” braking device. The prusik is not a knot, nor is it a mechanical braking device, either of which in a rapid decent could jam against the device and potentially break it, per the manual. A prusik of the proper length and attached to a LB loop cannot physically reach the Madrock and jam against it. Besides, the prusik is a backup. If the prusik engages, something has already failed, whether that be the Madrock or the operator. Either way, the prusik can only help at that point and cannot break the Madrock.
 
2Sloe said:
It actually says a knot or a “mechanical” braking device. The prusik is not a knot, nor is it a mechanical braking device, either of which in a rapid decent could jam against the device and potentially break it, per the manual. A prusik of the proper length and attached to a LB loop cannot physically reach the Madrock and jam against it. Besides, the prusik is a backup. If the prusik engages, something has already failed, whether that be the Madrock or the operator. Either way, the prusik can only help at that point and cannot break the Madrock.
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The concern isn't with a prusik reaching the device, infact that might actually be the best case scenario while misusing the device (since the safeguard would actually tend the prusik and brake on its own).

The concern is a sudden stop where a secondary device is the main braking force (and not the cam of the safeguard), hence placing undue force on the main cam pin.

Use the device however you want, I'm just putting the information out there for others to consume and form their own conclusions.
 
heretic said:
The concern isn't with a prusik reaching the device, infact that might actually be the best case scenario while misusing the device (since the safeguard would actually tend the prusik and brake on its own).

The concern is a sudden stop where a secondary device is the main braking force (and not the cam of the safeguard), hence placing undue force on the main cam pin.

Use the device however you want, I'm just putting the information out there for others to consume and form their own conclusions.
Click to expand...

What do you mean when you say best case scenario while misusing the device? Mainly misusing the device.


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I know that Madrock discourages the use of friction knot below the Safeguard. They don't give a specific failure mode for this but I can see the potential for the prusik uncamming the Safeguard (especially if the majority of the climbers weight was supported by the prusik) and then, contact from the safeguard above the prusik will act to tend it and release it. Although unlikely it is possible that, in this case, the added redundancy of the prusk could inadvertently result in a complete failure to hold the climber at height.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
I know that Madrock discourages the use of friction knot below the Safeguard. They don't give a specific failure mode for this but I can see the potential for the prusik uncamming the Safeguard (especially if the majority of the climbers weight was supported by the prusik) and then, contact from the safeguard above the prusik will act to tend it and release it. Although unlikely it is possible that, in this case, the added redundancy of the prusk could inadvertently result in a complete failure to hold the climber at height.
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You are right, there is no such thing as impossible, but with simple precautions, such as ensuring that the prusik cannot reach the Madrock, that scenario would be highly unlikely…..again, not impossible, just unlikely.
 
I don't have a MadRock but I do have a Beal Birdie. I don't like havin my back-up above it.
I'm pretty short and don't have much of a reach. If my back-up is above it I am too stretched out...
Another thing I've been playing with is a D ring on my saddles waist belt. I don't like having my back-up hooked to a linesman loop either. It pulls me sidewsideways while undoing platform or climbing stick.
 
Hellir said:
I’m brand new to saddle hunting. I decided to go with the 1-stick/rappel method because I’ve rappelled before (a long time ago) and I liked that idea.

I just got my MR Safeguard in and was testing it out some. I noticed when I sit in the saddle and then stand to adjust or whatever, with all the slack in the rope, I can slide the madrock downward with no problem, just by grabbing the device and pulling downward. The rope just slides like nothing. Is that suppose to happen?

Also, I don’t have my tether/rappel rope yet so I have been practicing with my 11mm lineman’s belt I got from TETHRD. When trying to rappel down, it seems like I am having to use a LOT of strength to even get the safeguard to start rappelling at all. To the point where it’s really hard to find that begging motion and let it gently slide. I’m pulling and pulling and pulling and nothing is happening then it just drops!

Is this normal for this device or is it because I’m trying with a thicker rope? The MR says it’s rated for 8.9mm-11mm. Seems like it shouldn’t be that hard! Would it be easier with the Canyon C-IV 9mm (what I’m looking to get for my tether/rappel rope)?

Thanks, friends.


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Smaller ropes are smoother on the descent than 11mm but here is my experience with 11mm.
If you want to smooth out the descent with 11mm rope do this.
 
808sh said:
I figured out how to smoothly rappel with the Madrock, it’s actually pretty simple.

Rough Madrock rappels? Here’s the fix!


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There is a lot of bad misinformation in this thread, it should be locked and not bumped with new posts. I know because I used to do/say similar things and was corrected, and thank you people that helped me be safer.

(No offense meant to any posters and I didn't watch your video @808sh this comment is more about basically the entire first page)
 
thedutchtouch said:
There is a lot of bad misinformation in this thread, it should be locked and not bumped with new posts. I know because I used to do/say similar things and was corrected, and thank you people that helped me be safer.

(No offense meant to any posters and I didn't watch your video @808sh this comment is more about basically the entire first page)
Click to expand...

This video actually speaks about all of the bad information, especially regarding safety, that overall made me switch to an ATC.


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808sh said:
This video actually speaks about all of the bad information, especially regarding safety, that overall made me switch to an ATC.


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I hear you. (I'm a subscriber lol) I more was speaking to the other people that come across the thread since it's been bumped. Honestly I think you'll get more views/interaction starting a new thread anyway, but not over here trying to tell you specifically what to do, just hoping to catch the random googler or forum newbie.

Still haven't watched the full video, so you may say this but in my opinion the jerky safeguard is because people are not controlling their rope correctly. We should be holding on to the tag end and applying downward pressure (as if we are stopping the rappel) before touching the safeguard handle. If you're controlling the brake hand/rope correctly, it's impossible for the safeguard to "slip" or be jerky. Most people just yeet on the handle and use it as their brake. But here I am adding to the thread that I think shouldn't be added to lol
 
thedutchtouch said:
I hear you. (I'm a subscriber lol) I more was speaking to the other people that come across the thread since it's been bumped. Honestly I think you'll get more views/interaction starting a new thread anyway, but not over here trying to tell you specifically what to do, just hoping to catch the random googler or forum newbie.

Still haven't watched the full video, so you may say this but in my opinion the jerky safeguard is because people are not controlling their rope correctly. We should be holding on to the tag end and applying downward pressure (as if we are stopping the rappel) before touching the safeguard handle. If you're controlling the brake hand/rope correctly, it's impossible for the safeguard to "slip" or be jerky. Most people just yeet on the handle and use it as their brake. But here I am adding to the thread that I think shouldn't be added to lol
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I hear you and thanks for supporting the channel


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808sh said:
I hear you and thanks for supporting the channel


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Watched the video. I'm not an expert but if what I think is right, it appears that what you're showing people is wrong? It looks like you are using the handle of the madrock to apply braking force. My understanding is all of the braking force is supposed to come from the tag end/brake hand, and the madrock handle is supposed to just be a device engage/disengage (all or nothing) only and not modulated to provide braking, but many people use the lever incorrectly.

I know for a fact that I've been wrong about safeguards in other ways (I'd previously used an autoblock on the tag end until I learned it was a no-no (directly in madrock's paperwork) so I may be wrong about this too. ultimately it's these types of not being sure threads/thoughts combined with the fact that the ATC is just easier that has moved me back to ATC descent as well.
 
I think I’ll just get a Pilot from black Diamond. I’ll have a hitch for backup like I currently do with my ATC. I need an insta-rappel and have been looking at the subject of this thread. I m hoping to SRT at some point anywho so I’m probably going get the Canyon elite.
 
808sh said:
This video actually speaks about all of the bad information, especially regarding safety, that overall made me switch to an ATC.


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Click to expand...
I just watched your video, and enjoyed it. Ont thing that got me was where you said you used to add a schwabisch above the device but no longer do… I believe you may have misunderstood the instructions from madrocks safety literature, nowhere in the warning does Madrock say no knots or hitches ABOVE the device, it specifically says no knots or hitches on the brake line side (the side you hold taut in your hand (for speed control; ie braking) that feeds into the device as you rappel down. In fact if you reach out to Madrock, they will suggest using a prusik above the device as a safe way to back it up.
Otherwise, it was an excellent video and it’s very smart that you pull your rope upward to get away from the cover milking to help create a smoother initial rappel.
While I do see your thoughts on how people carry their sticks, weapons and platforms, as mobile hunters, we are very limited on options for where/how we carry our gear. So since you don’t hang objects on your lower back, do you hang them from a pack on your upper back? Maybe facing forward via a Fanny pack? Have you made a video on how you tote your sticks, bow and gear while walking through the woods?
 
Silly question cause I've never used this gizmo and never had a prusik attached to a bridge loops or had a break below the rappel point.....if the worst happens and the gizmo fails and the prusik grabs wouldn't u now be hanging crazy? Either ur back or stomach to the trunk and laying kinda sideways with ur opposite hip facing the ground directly below u
 
To prevent that exact scenario, I either girth hitch a 12 in sling to my waist belt or add an extra Cobra D-ring to the belt & attach my backup to it, so if anything goes wrong with the MadRock, at least I'm still hanging in the same orientation.

I personally have no concerns with my MadRock failing.

I've never been a fan of clipping my backup to a lineman's loop or saddle loop...
 
I used my MR all season with no issue at all. I started the season with auto block attached to the slack end and my linesman loop. I did this because I'm afraid of heights and new to repelling (leaning backwards and trusting a rope at 20' had me nervous to say the least) After about 8-10 set ups, I removed it. With the MR, repelling is so silky smooth and even has me feeling safe. Practice more and you will love it!
 
One of these days/weeks/months, I need to do a video on this but for simplicity sake, there is no difference between a Figure 8, Madrock or GriGri.

You’d never use a Figure 8 without a brake/control hand and the same applies with a Madrock/GriGri. The lever is nothing more than a safety and has nothing to do with actually braking/lowering yourself. If that’s what you’re it for, you will eventually invite disaster to say hello.

Instead and with your brake hand set, you should be able to fully open the device via the lever and not move an inch. If you can do that and control your descent with your brake hand, you’re using them correctly.


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