Hunting Arrows - A Boring In Depth Conversation (Hopefully)

[bj139]

I read two pages about this topic on Archerytalk and most people there thought the OP was being far too technical. 22 pages!!!! Yikes.

 

[Kurt]

I agree you need to be accurate. Ashby recognized that wounding rates increased as manufacturers released different broadhead designs, and bow hunters started flinging arrows tipped with broadheads with less penetration potential. Bows got stronger and wounding rates went up. Believe it or not. I believe it, and I'm a guy who never in his bow hunting career ever shot a single bevel COC head, and I've killed a bunch of deer. I'm just ready to do it different. Expandable broadheads were an experiment for me. I'm done. I'm going to something with more punch.

 

[Kurt]

I read two pages about this topic on Archerytalk and most people there thought the OP was being far too technical. 22 pages!!!! Yikes.

It's a lot I know. Some folks have a lot to say. Some stuff you need to say more about. It's a complex issue with many variables. But when the smoke clears and the intellectual dust settles, we know what the basics are.

 

[weekender21]

I’ve messed around with many arrow set ups over the past 13 years. Everything from 400 to 532 grains. Currently shooting the 532 grain arrows and might increase it from here. Many benefits of a heavy setup regardless of shot distance IMO.

I’ve killed animals with mechanicals but definitely prefer fixed for many of the reasons already discussed. I do still shoot large mechanicals for turkey hunting but that’s another topic entirely.


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[weekender21]

Most people don't care if the mathematics said they should have gotten the deer but didn't. There are millions of possible details and if the weight and speed are good enough it should work but doesn't always. If you are talking about billiard balls in space you may be able to calculate an exact solution but gravitational anomalies, micrometeorites and space dust will probably foil your plans.

Yep and every shot at a live animal is different. Every one.


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[Kurt]

How did the arrow not penetrate? I had to hit my femoral artery hit deer with more arrows. It wasn't very nice.
Edit: quick post. I see.
Does your example even count as to whether momentum causes penetration or just correlates with it?

No it does not. But what it does show is the importance of penetration, which we know is based on inertia, which is directly effected by mass. so long as it all maintains it's integrity. Proper build, using proper components.

 

[kyler1945]

In my limited research there isn't really anybody who holds a light to Ashby.....if I remember right it was 30+ years of research in his papers.

I'm hopeful that attempting to have a thoughtful conversation, about these ground truths (not our anecdotal experience and "I did this so it's fine" posts) will lay the ground work for a similar trap to be run. But one that is updated specifically to deer, and much more specific. I have some ideas, and some goals in mind. But at the very least, if folks update their thinking, across time we're going to get a little more efficient. I think it matters for a lot of reasons, but I'd rather the facts do the talking for now.

 

[Jason Wandling]

I think foc is better than total arrow weight to an extent. I’m only at 455 grains but foc is almost 14 I think. I’m going to experiment with 500 grains and 20%foc. To achieve this I went with a lightweight arrow (8.8 gpi) but 300 spine. I added FACT weights to the inserts.

 

[swampsnyper]

I once tried to build a sled device that I could shoot a block of wood and measure how far it slid back. It didn’t work well and results were skewed depending on where you hit the block of wood. It was pretty much worthless. I haven’t found any test that used such a device. I know there are such devices out there. Seems like it would put a lot of theories to rest. Then all you had to decide on would be the broadhead.
This stuff never bothered me with a compound. Even with my short draw length, I had plenty of power as long as my arrow was tuned. Going trad was an eye opener.

 

[DanielB89]

Even with this result, I will probably switch to a heavier arrow with a cut on contact head I can afford. My goal for next year is to get everything setup for a diy elk hunt in 2021.

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This is also a major factor I don't believe most people factor in while shooting expandable broadheads. 90% of the time the broadheads are "one and done". In a game that's already overpriced, to only be able to shoot a $15 broadhead into an animal once and have to replace it is ridiculous! I have been shooting Simmons Broadheads for years out of trad bows and last year I swapped to them on my compound. I am shooting the newer Simmons Mako and have loved the results I have gotten so far! The best part is I have killed 3 or 4 deer with the same head and it's still number 1 in my quiver. The best advice for a broadhead is get one that you can sharpen and be done with it. Barring a complete failure, you'll be able to shoot it as long as it stays intact.

There is a guy with an ugly mug on youtube that does a sharpening video on a RADA wheel and it's how I sharpen everything. Mako's, slick tricks, bleeder blades, knives, etc.

 

[Hunter260]

This is a great thread! I wish I could get a higher FOC. Mine is only 14% but I am limited by arrow spine. 300 spine cut to a minimum length, that broadheads will clear, just pass the bareshaft tests. I guess I could get new arrows but I’ve got this setup shooting fixed heads to 80 yds with field points.

I would go on victory archery’s website and use there spine guide. You may be suprised with how much weight you can stack on the front. Ive got a buddy shooting 65lbs at 29” with 340 spine arrows that have 225 grain points. His setup is super high FOC and shoots great. I thought my setup was about maxed out with 300 spine, but can get away with 100 more grains up front.

 

[Wirrex]

I would go on victory archery’s website and use there spine guide. You may be suprised with how much weight you can stack on the front. Ive got a buddy shooting 65lbs at 29” with 340 spine arrows that have 225 grain points. His setup is super high FOC and shoots great. I thought my setup was about maxed out with 300 spine, but can get away with 100 more grains up front.

More weight puts my arrow out of tune. You can’t really use any chart to get your arrows perfectly spined. They just get you close.

 

[Hunter260]

More weight puts my arrow out of tune. You can’t really use any chart to get your arrows perfectly spined. They just get you close.

Definitely agree. Gotta walk back tune