Important Information on Sterling Hollow Block

[kyler1945]

I certainly don't take credit for introducing the forum to the hollow block. I know there are several folks who have been using them for some time. But I do feel a bit of responsibility for pitching it's use as an autoblock for a rappel setup, and that generating some exposure, and certainly purchases. I never considered using it as my anchor on a tether, and have never done so. I honestly can't say if that was out of pure luck, or me reading the user's manual several years ago. Either way, it didn't cross my mind. But I see that the hollow block is getting a lot of love lately, and I seem to remember folks saying they'd use it as their main life support on their tether. @bowhunter15 brought to my attention privately that the user's manual states it not intended for this use.

I had a little bit of a sick feeling in my stomach, and have contemplated whether to make a stink about it.

The fact of the matter is someone is going to die from using a saddle and climbing ropes/hardware inappropriately. And anything we can do to get people thinking, checking gear, reading user's manuals, and talking with certified instructors, is ultimately a good thing. The more informed, and careful folks are, the less likely it will be them.

I've given up all social media, so this site is my only "online tribe". I've gotten to know quite a few of you guys, and without a wife or kids to look after, I feel compelled to look after ya. So forgive me if I'm helicopter parenting.

Check out this link to the user's manual on the hollow block. It is a great tool meant for a specific use. Please read, and be sure you're using it properly.

Stay safe folks, the season is right around the corner!

https://amga.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/care_hollow-block-1.pdf

Pay specific attention to two details - it is NOT intended for use as primary connection, and extended UV exposure can weaken the fibers by up to 50%.

 

[cb750]

I hope I didnt give the impression that's how I used mine. I checked the rating and didn't think it was strong enough for that.

 

[Torvic]

I certainly don't take credit for introducing the forum to the hollow block. I know there are several folks who have been using them for some time. But I do feel a bit of responsibility for pitching it's use as an autoblock for a rappel setup, and that generating some exposure, and certainly purchases. I never considered using it as my anchor on a tether, and have never done so. I honestly can't say if that was out of pure luck, or me reading the user's manual several years ago. Either way, it didn't cross my mind. But I see that the hollow block is getting a lot of love lately, and I seem to remember folks saying they'd use it as their main life support on their tether. @bowhunter15 brought to my attention privately that the user's manual states it not intended for this use.

I had a little bit of a sick feeling in my stomach, and have contemplated whether to make a stink about it.

The fact of the matter is someone is going to die from using a saddle and climbing ropes/hardware inappropriately. And anything we can do to get people thinking, checking gear, reading user's manuals, and talking with certified instructors, is ultimately a good thing. The more informed, and careful folks are, the less likely it will be them.

I've given up all social media, so this site is my only "online tribe". I've gotten to know quite a few of you guys, and without a wife or kids to look after, I feel compelled to look after ya. So forgive me if I'm helicopter parenting.

Check out this link to the user's manual on the hollow block. It is a great tool meant for a specific use. Please read, and be sure you're using it properly.

Stay safe folks, the season is right around the corner!

https://amga.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/care_hollow-block-1.pdf

Pay specific attention to two details - it is NOT intended for use as primary connection, and extended UV exposure can weaken the fibers by up to 50%.

Thank you for sharing this very informative information!

 

[pesqimon]

I’m guilty of using this without having read the manual. The hollow block seems to be a darling of the climbing world, yet two reviews I read didn’t mention this little detail either.

Now having read the manual, it’s suspicious to me that they recommend it as a progress capture. I’m having trouble imagining a situation where this isn’t a primary load bear?

And if you let go of your rap rope, and the hollow block catches you, does it not then become the primary?

Are they trying to say that it’s not rated for fall arrest? But again, isn’t that what an autoblock does?

Not here to argue the points, I think I’d just rather switch to a device with less ambiguity.

 

[Wirrex]

I have been using them as a prusick even though I read they’re not intended to. Idk maybe it is a bad idea. Is accessory cord used as a prusick any better?

I liked the hollow block because it’s less bulky.

 

[kyler1945]

I’m guilty of using this without having read the manual. The hollow block seems to be a darling of the climbing world, yet two reviews I read didn’t mention this little detail either.

Now having read the manual, it’s suspicious to me that they recommend it as a progress capture. I’m having trouble imagining a situation where this isn’t a primary load bear?

And if you let go of your rap rope, and the hollow block catches you, does it not then become the primary?

Are they trying to say that it’s not rated for fall arrest? But again, isn’t that what an autoblock does?

Not here to argue the points, I think I’d just rather switch to a device with less ambiguity.

Progress capture and fall arrest are two very different things. It’s the same as the back and forth about the ropeman. They are designed to capture progress, under tension. If slack is introduced, and the potential for a high fall factor fall is created, they are not intended to be used as fall arrest.

And when used in auto block configuration, the hollow block should never be exposed to the forces generated by a climber who is falling- The belay device/carabiner/climbing rope is. It simply provides tension, which pulls the climbing rope into the valley of the device, or activates the cam in an auto device.

This is the problem with folks just guessing as stuff, making assumptions, and not being willing to speak with someone who is qualified to help them.

Those instructions are very clear to me. If they aren’t to you, that’s a good reason to get in front of a climbing instructor, or the manufacturer, to clear that up.

To be honest, that instruction manual is by far the clearest one I’ve read on a climbing device in a while - they’re mostly quite confusing if you don’t understand common climbing language. Which is a problem that we alone are responsible for. Many of us are borrowing equipment from a different world, and just guessing at how it will work for us, or taking the advice of a guy on the Internet.

This isn’t meant to be disparaging. But it should hopefully convince some folks to take a more active, responsible role in their own safety.

Your pride can kill you. Your laziness can kill you. Your ignorance can kill you. Your lack of focus can kill you.

Please take climbing equipment seriously guys. I see it tossed out regularly that ‘I’m only climbing 30’, those guys climb hundreds it will be fine for me.’ That statement applies to convenience, or comfort, or speed. It DOES NOT apply to safety, reliability, or applicability. It takes a very short fall on a short static tether to create catastrophic results.

I’ll say it again. Someone is going to die saddle hunting or climbing. Please re-evaluate your system, and the way you use it. I don’t want it to be you.

 

[bowhuntr09]

Instruction manual you say....I ordered my hollow block from Amazon and it just came plain in a plastic bag. Nothing in the way of manual.

 

[Wirrex]

Progress capture and fall arrest are two very different things. It’s the same as the back and forth about the ropeman. They are designed to capture progress, under tension. If slack is introduced, and the potential for a high fall factor fall is created, they are not intended to be used as fall arrest.

And when used in auto block configuration, the hollow block should never be exposed to the forces generated by a climber who is falling- The belay device/carabiner/climbing rope is. It simply provides tension, which pulls the climbing rope into the valley of the device, or activates the cam in an auto device.

This is the problem with folks just guessing as stuff, making assumptions, and not being willing to speak with someone who is qualified to help them.

Those instructions are very clear to me. If they aren’t to you, that’s a good reason to get in front of a climbing instructor, or the manufacturer, to clear that up.

To be honest, that instruction manual is by far the clearest one I’ve read on a climbing device in a while - they’re mostly quite confusing if you don’t understand common climbing language. Which is a problem that we alone are responsible for. Many of us are borrowing equipment from a different world, and just guessing at how it will work for us, or taking the advice of a guy on the Internet.

This isn’t meant to be disparaging. But it should hopefully convince some folks to take a more active, responsible role in their own safety.

Your pride can kill you. Your laziness can kill you. Your ignorance can kill you. Your lack of focus can kill you.

Please take climbing equipment seriously guys. I see it tossed out regularly that ‘I’m only climbing 30’, those guys climb hundreds it will be fine for me.’ That statement applies to convenience, or comfort, or speed. It DOES NOT apply to safety, reliability, or applicability. It takes a very short fall on a short static tether to create catastrophic results.

I’ll say it again. Someone is going to die saddle hunting or climbing. Please re-evaluate your system, and the way you use it. I don’t want it to be you.

So you’re saying it’s a bad idea to use these for friction knots?

 

[ImThere]

Instruction manual you say....I ordered my hollow block from Amazon and it just came plain in a plastic bag. Nothing in the way of manual.

I think this is the reason @kyler1944 keeps pushing the “Dig a little deeper”


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[kyler1945]

So you’re saying it’s a bad idea to use these for friction knots?

I'm saying the instructions very clearly state the intended use of the device.

What I am saying, is that some folks have mentioned using the hollow block at their primary, or only connection to their tether. This is exactly what the instructions say NOT to do. I am not going to give advice, or say what is a good and bad idea. That is for the user to decide. I'm just trying to get people thinking, and more informed.

As I suspected, some portion of these folks are doing it out of ignorance, (not having read the instructions). That's ultimately why I started the thread - a couple of people re-evaluating and thinking through the system was the intention. Hopefully more stop in and read through.

 

[Wirrex]

I'm saying the instructions very clearly state the intended use of the device.

What I am saying, is that some folks have mentioned using the hollow block at their primary, or only connection to their tether. This is exactly what the instructions say NOT to do. I am not going to give advice, or say what is a good and bad idea. That is for the user to decide. I'm just trying to get people thinking, and more informed.

As I suspected, some portion of these folks are doing it out of ignorance, (not having read the instructions). That's ultimately why I started the thread - a couple of people re-evaluating and thinking through the system was the intention. Hopefully more stop in and read through.

Well, call me busted. I understand you are trying to inform people. That’s admirable. I’m just trying to decide for myself how bad of an idea it is. I ran two at the same time last year in prusick form. One on my saddle and one on my rch. This is a struggling choice for me because I really like them in my setup.

 

[pesqimon]

Progress capture and fall arrest are two very different things. It’s the same as the back and forth about the ropeman. They are designed to capture progress, under tension. If slack is introduced, and the potential for a high fall factor fall is created, they are not intended to be used as fall arrest.

And when used in auto block configuration, the hollow block should never be exposed to the forces generated by a climber who is falling- The belay device/carabiner/climbing rope is. It simply provides tension, which pulls the climbing rope into the valley of the device, or activates the cam in an auto device.

This is the problem with folks just guessing as stuff, making assumptions, and not being willing to speak with someone who is qualified to help them.

Those instructions are very clear to me. If they aren’t to you, that’s a good reason to get in front of a climbing instructor, or the manufacturer, to clear that up.

To be honest, that instruction manual is by far the clearest one I’ve read on a climbing device in a while - they’re mostly quite confusing if you don’t understand common climbing language. Which is a problem that we alone are responsible for. Many of us are borrowing equipment from a different world, and just guessing at how it will work for us, or taking the advice of a guy on the Internet.

This isn’t meant to be disparaging. But it should hopefully convince some folks to take a more active, responsible role in their own safety.

Your pride can kill you. Your laziness can kill you. Your ignorance can kill you. Your lack of focus can kill you.

Please take climbing equipment seriously guys. I see it tossed out regularly that ‘I’m only climbing 30’, those guys climb hundreds it will be fine for me.’ That statement applies to convenience, or comfort, or speed. It DOES NOT apply to safety, reliability, or applicability. It takes a very short fall on a short static tether to create catastrophic results.

I’ll say it again. Someone is going to die saddle hunting or climbing. Please re-evaluate your system, and the way you use it. I don’t want it to be you.

I get what you’re saying distinguishing with progress capture and catching a climber. This is why I’d wish they’d just stated “not for fall arrest”.

I’d say if you’re using it as your prusic on your tether, it’s probably fine as this is similar to “progress capture” ie not exposed to a force of a fall (with slack)

As a short bridge for rappel, that seems out of spec for the hollow block. This is how I have been using it and will replace it with something else.

As your prusic in a hand climber or one stick climb where slack can get into the system, seems like you want to swap it out for something else.

Thanks for bringing this subject up.

 

[kyler1945]

I’d say if you’re using it as your prusic on your tether, it’s probably fine as this is similar to “progress capture” ie not exposed to a force of a fall (with slack)

Just to clarify, this is your opinion - the user's manual clearly states : "It should NEVER be used as the sole or primary connection point in any safety system."

I think this is the issue we run into here on the forum, facebook, etc. A guy who has 1000 posts is perceived as knowing what he's talking about. Maybe he does know lots of things. Maybe he doesn't. But when he says it's fine to use as your connection to your tether, someone reading this may not understand that he is stating his opinion, and not the recommendations of the manufacturer, or people certified to give recommendations.

Much of the responsibility is on the reader in this case. But we're kidding ourselves if we think it doesn't happen this way.

We all bear some responsibility to each other, in my opinion. It is why I try to speak very clearly on these topics, and work with other posters to clarify their words, and separate facts from opinions or uninformed recommendations.

Example - You make a decision to use it as your connection to your tether. You tell the internet you think that's ok. @bowhuntr09 reads that, buys it off of amazon, and does the same thing, making an assumption that it must be ok to do so if amazon will sell it to him, and other people are doing it. Another guy reads that post and buys one, and doesn't read the instructions, so he doesn't know it will break down with UV exposure. He puts one on a lifeline in his yard for his practice setup to shoot his bow. It's been there for 5 months through the summer, and he goes to climb up for a practice round before season. He slips on his ladder, falls 12-15" on static rope, and the hollow block snaps in half and he's paralyzed.

Sure, it's a worst case scenario. But it is entirely plausible, and could be avoided by doing a little homework up front, and all of us speaking very clearly about this stuff. I tend to be very conservative when making any sort of recommendation - ie. I usually don't. And I make very clear when something is my opinion, and not fact.

 

[pesqimon]

Just to clarify, this is your opinion - the user's manual clearly states : "It should NEVER be used as the sole or primary connection point in any safety system."

I think this is the issue we run into here on the forum, facebook, etc. A guy who has 1000 posts is perceived as knowing what he's talking about. Maybe he does know lot's of things. Maybe he doesn't. But when he says it's fine to use as your connection to your tether, someone reading this may not understand that he is stating his opinion, and not the recommendations of the manufacturer, or people certified to give recommendations.

Much of the responsibility is on the reader in this case. But we're kidding ourselves if we think it doesn't happen this way.

We all bear some responsibility to each other, in my opinion. It is why I try to speak very clearly on these topics, and work with other posters to clarify their words, and separate facts from opinions or uninformed recommendations.

Example - You make a decision to use it as your connection to your tether. You tell the internet you think that's ok. @bowhuntr09 reads that, buys it off of amazon, and does the same thing, making an assumption that it must be ok to do so if amazon will sell it to him, and other people are doing it. Another guy reads that post and buys one, and doesn't read the instructions, so he doesn't know it will break down with UV exposure. He puts one on a lifeline in his yard for his practice setup to shoot his bow. It's been there for 5 months through the summer, and he goes to climb up for a practice round before season. He slips on his ladder, falls 12-15" on static rope, and the hollow block snaps in half and he's paralyzed.

Sure, it's a worst case scenario. But it is entirely plausible, and could be avoided by doing a little homework up front, and all of us speaking very clearly about this stuff. I tend to be very conservative when making any sort of recommendation - ie. I usually don't. And I make very clear when something is my opinion, and not fact.

Yes, when I speak I represent only my views. Should go without say, but we know that’s not how the internet works. I think the plausible scenario you provided is a good one. Hard for me to imagine because I personally don’t leave my stuff outside when not in use, so I am glad you brought it up.

In my opinion, i’ll be switching to a different piece of gear and only use the hollow block as prescribed in the manual.

 

[kyler1945]

It was pointed out to me that I mentioned that a hollow block would work well as a prusik for life support in another post. It didn't even occur to me as I typed it and sent it into the internet, that I was advocating the above problem. This is how easy it happens, and it spreads quickly. I've corrected that mistake.

 

[bhett28]

Hey guys,

I like the thouroughness and safety discussed here. Quick follow up question regarding the autoblock topic. So I'm climbing up using stepps and tethering in. Then I have a second, static rope Im planning to use for the rappel down. I was struggling when practicing with the autoblock earlier this week, but I'm guessing I didn't have the autoblock tied correctly.

Essentially, I'm using the static rope with an ATC XP and utilizing the Sterling autoblock below it. Now that this thread has enlightened me on the correct way to tie the autoblock knot, I have two questions.

1) It seems to be appropriate to tie the autoblock to the static rope and hook it to an appropriate carabinier attached to a leg strap on my kestrel flex?
2) Ideally, I'd like to be able to stop, untie, and stow the steps during my rappel. With practice I hopefully will be able to do that one handed. Although the discussion in this thread seems to indicate that might not be my safest play to rely on the autoblock for that if I'm understanding correctly? Can one of you guys clarify if this qualifies as unsafe.

Appreciate the insight.

 

[Torvic]

Hey guys,

I like the thouroughness and safety discussed here. Quick follow up question regarding the autoblock topic. So I'm climbing up using stepps and tethering in. Then I have a second, static rope Im planning to use for the rappel down. I was struggling when practicing with the autoblock earlier this week, but I'm guessing I didn't have the autoblock tied correctly.

Essentially, I'm using the static rope with an ATC XP and utilizing the Sterling autoblock below it. Now that this thread has enlightened me on the correct way to tie the autoblock knot, I have two questions.

1) It seems to be appropriate to tie the autoblock to the static rope and hook it to an appropriate carabinier attached to a leg strap on my kestrel flex?
2) Ideally, I'd like to be able to stop, untie, and stow the steps during my rappel. With practice I hopefully will be able to do that one handed. Although the discussion in this thread seems to indicate that might not be my safest play to rely on the autoblock for that if I'm understanding correctly? Can one of you guys clarify if this qualifies as unsafe.

Appreciate the insight.

Read the previous posting(#15) the answer to your questions are addressed there!

 

[weekender21]

Hey guys,

I like the thouroughness and safety discussed here. Quick follow up question regarding the autoblock topic. So I'm climbing up using stepps and tethering in. Then I have a second, static rope Im planning to use for the rappel down. I was struggling when practicing with the autoblock earlier this week, but I'm guessing I didn't have the autoblock tied correctly.

Essentially, I'm using the static rope with an ATC XP and utilizing the Sterling autoblock below it. Now that this thread has enlightened me on the correct way to tie the autoblock knot, I have two questions.

1) It seems to be appropriate to tie the autoblock to the static rope and hook it to an appropriate carabiner attached to a leg strap on my kestrel flex?
2) Ideally, I'd like to be able to stop, untie, and stow the steps during my rappel. With practice I hopefully will be able to do that one handed. Although the discussion in this thread seems to indicate that might not be my safest play to rely on the autoblock for that if I'm understanding correctly? Can one of you guys clarify if this qualifies as unsafe.

Appreciate the insight.

You really should read the user manual and understand what it says. With that, you are using it for one of its primary purposes.

"Rappel safety back up friction hitch that is placed BELOW the rappel device on single or doubled strands of life-safety rope when repelling or performing rescue operations."

If you're using it below an ATC, it's not the sole or primary connection point. That gets a little grey once you go hands free although it's still not the primary connection point, your ATC is. You should always keep one hand (break hand) on the tag end of your rope. However, you can tie a quick loop in the running end (alpine butterfly as an example) and connect that loop to your harness via a locking carabiner to easily solve that problem. I'd also recommend (just my opinion) you familiarize yourself AT GROUND LEVEL with how fast your rope goes through the ATC. All ATC's will be different but it's something I'd like to be aware of in case my autoblock broke or wasn't tied properly to begin with.

Great conversation, education will prevent accidents. Bottom line: read manufacture recommendations and be familiar with your equipment.

 

[cb750]

I will point something else out here. I spoke to a climbing guy at a store similar to but not REI about how I climb and what I intended to use mine for. He thought it would be fine. But at no point did he go into detail and truthfully I believe he did not understand. Point being while this guy rock climbs he is likely hoping I know what I want/need. Its entirely possible that he misunderstood or just played along to make a sale. Either way no comfort to someone falling after their hollow block breaks. This isn't a dig at sales staff. It's me advocating for personal responsibility.

I've actually seem some wear on mine after very limited use. I will be getting rid of it.

We need to take extreme ownership of our actions and our gear. We can and should listen to advice and experience from others. But the choices are ultimately ours alone and literally our lives could depend on it. So act accordingly.

 

[fawnzy]

So is there a consensus? If rappelling using an ATC what is the safest back up/ friction hitch.?


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