Lack of penetration has me going to a two blade.

[Nutterbuster]

Jake from THP lost one to a shoulder hit after they've been preaching heavy arrow over the last couple of years, blamed part of it on the broadhead curling over.... Not saying I've never done anything wrong, but a shoulder isn't a good idea, no matter what arrow setup you're using.

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It's always the arrow, and never the Indian. 5 years listening to those stories 40 hours a week and it was never the Indian.

Kinda like how my grandaddy in law enforcement said that in 40 years he never saw a loaded gun kill a person...

 

[rhagenw]

I think a lot of people in the next season or two are gonna realize that hype is hype. Whether it's saddles, scent lok, heavy arrows, expensive high-carbon steel broadheads, whatever. Nothing guarantees success.

Take them arrows and stick another deer a little further back! Roll tide and all that!

best post in this thread...no reason to change from one instance no reason to limit to 20 yard shots...aim for the crease between 1/3 to 1/2 up and you will have more room for error...keep your chin up and keep hunting Crap happens

 

[raisins]

I think a lot of people in the next season or two are gonna realize that hype is hype. Whether it's saddles, scent lok, heavy arrows, expensive high-carbon steel broadheads, whatever. Nothing guarantees success.

Take them arrows and stick another deer a little further back! Roll tide and all that!

This "shoot for the vital V to put'em down within sight" is (I predict) going to cause a lot of people to need heavy arrows when they stick one right in the socket of the shoulder (causing more harm than good). My photo shop job above was considered common sense shot placement a few years back. In fact, people would've thought I was perhaps crowding the shoulder.

 

[kenn1320]

 

[Flee]

Guys. I didn’t intend to “shoot through bone”. I didn’t intentionally crowd the shoulder. I didn’t say it’s the broadheads fault. I’m saying that with my set up that if the worst case scenario(hit the shoulder dead on) I thought I’d have gotten better penetration. And that in my opinion a two blade design would have faired better. But even that has its limitations with my short DL.
I realize it is the shooters fault and not the equipment. But I personally still buy into the heavier ish set up and a good fixed head. I probably would have been more than fine another inch or two further back but that didn’t happen. I’m just saying my two cents that I feel a two blade design would be better insurance with a repeat scenario.

 

[Kurt]

I was talking to a blood tracker the other day, his take on this would be simple. During our conversation his perspective was: "People try to show off to their friends on how good of a shot they are by putting it right in the crease. Lungs are huge, stay off the shoulder. They would be better off center punching a deer and coming back in the morning, way less likely to lose a deer."

Around here that thought process would feed a bunch of coyotes.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Guys. I didn’t intend to “shoot through bone”. I didn’t intentionally crowd the shoulder. I didn’t say it’s the broadheads fault. I’m saying that with my set up that if the worst case scenario(hit the shoulder dead on) I thought I’d have gotten better penetration. And that in my opinion a two blade design would have faired better. But even that has its limitations with my short DL.
I realize it is the shooters fault and not the equipment. But I personally still buy into the heavier ish set up and a good fixed head. I probably would have been more than fine another inch or two further back but that didn’t happen. I’m just saying my two cents that I feel a two blade design would be better insurance with a repeat scenario.

I apologize for rabbit trailing.

I think you're fine heavy and fixed 2 blade. I think the table will flip eventually and folks will realize that shoulders are tough to poke compared to squishy bits and rib bones. I think it's good to see folks saying that their combo didn't bust the shoulder.

 

[BCHunter]

Around here that thought process would feed a bunch of coyotes.

Oh, I'm sure it's different all over the place, but I've only ever had one deer out of 20ish that has had a coyote go after it. They were on it before it was dead.

 

[Kurt]

I didn't say "center punch", but I'd have to assume they meant "center punch the vitals". Center of the deer would put you in the stomach, which is probably the worst hit imaginable (at least the small intestine has a lot of blood vessels to absorb nutrients and so they will at least bleed to death in a few hours). The blue circle is what I would consider "center punching", which is just on the backside of the "vital v". That circle is where I instinctively aim on broadside deer. Really, I could've extended it back a bit also.

View attachment 38198

I wouldn't want to aim any further back than that, but I'd say if you could put it there 100% of the time it wouldn't matter much what you shoot.

 

[Kurt]

Guys. I didn’t intend to “shoot through bone”. I didn’t intentionally crowd the shoulder. I didn’t say it’s the broadheads fault. I’m saying that with my set up that if the worst case scenario(hit the shoulder dead on) I thought I’d have gotten better penetration. And that in my opinion a two blade design would have faired better. But even that has its limitations with my short DL.
I realize it is the shooters fault and not the equipment. But I personally still buy into the heavier ish set up and a good fixed head. I probably would have been more than fine another inch or two further back but that didn’t happen. I’m just saying my two cents that I feel a two blade design would be better insurance with a repeat scenario.

I love the use of the word "insurance". I don't think anyone out there is saying "hey let's shoot for the deer's bones", no. Crowd the crease to the front side and have insurance.

 

[Weldabeast]

The curled broadhead episode was hard to see anything about what happened....if that thing curled like that from something inside the deers body that I think helix QC is a little lacking.. I don't know what they claim rockwell hardness but that blade should have snapped before it curl like that....the heat treat was not correct on that thing. ..

 

[DanielB89]

I have multiple friends and myself who have killed quite a few kills under our belt with a traditional bow and would tell you to swap to a 2 blade and keep rolling.

I have shot through hogs well over 20 yards before with my longbow. It shoots about 175 fps with a 525 grain arrow. Speed x mass = energy. No offense to anyone here, but if my longbow will do it, your compound sure as heck will.

Tom above made some great points. Your penetration is completely limited to the integrity of both your arrow and your broadhead. I would be sure I was using a strong shaft, with adequate footing and a head I knew wasn't going to bend on the first rib it touches.

Another huge factor on penetration is what was the deer doing when the arrow got there. If the deer was standing still, it woulda penetrated well. If it was already moving on to evade the arrow, penetration can be greatly reduced when that happens.

 

[Chehaw50]

Everyone is going to have their on opinion on heavy arrow vs lite, mechanical vs fixed, and 2 blade vs 4 blade. Kinda like Ford vs Chevy

The last few years I wasn't happy with how my bow was shooting. I was ready to sale my bow. I blamed my bow for being a piece of junk. This year I decided to dive deeper in and study how to properly arrow tuning, following the Ranch Fairy steps. The arrow tuning appealed to me more than the heavy arrow side of it at first. However during my testing, I discovered that my bow and I shot heavier arrows very well. I would not sell or get rid of my 10 year old bow now for nothing. To be honest if I would have did the same tuning on my arrow setup that I had before the heavy arrows I would have been just as satisfied.

No matter what you think about lite arrow vs heavy arrow, a properly tuned arrow, proper arrow flight, a sharp broad head, and well placed shot, things will die. The heavy arrow comes in when things happen like animals moving, target panic or other things that may go wrong once arrow is released. what works for me may not work for someone else.

Have fun with it, do your own testing. My testing helped me be a better shooter by understanding my equipment.

 

[mattsteg]

This "shoot for the vital V to put'em down within sight" is (I predict) going to cause a lot of people to need heavy arrows when they stick one right in the socket of the shoulder (causing more harm than good). My photo shop job above was considered common sense shot placement a few years back. In fact, people would've thought I was perhaps crowding the shoulder.

It still should be common sense...it's like people just suddenly noticed that a deer's leg/shoulder has a funky angle that leaves a nice patch of vitals exposed and overreacted to that knowledge.

 

[kbetts]

First thing most of us need to do is stop crowding the shoulder. There's no reason. The majority of the kill area on a deer is pretty soft and pretty large.

I didn't start losing deer until I started to try to 10 ring them. Shoot the line at the back of the front 1/3, dead center, and they'll drop every time.

 

[Kyrodan]

Hit a small 8 point today. Was a little high and in the shoulder but really wasn’t a bad shot. The angle was perfect to get a lung and heart. I have some ser razors and tooth of the arrows. I went with the tooth of the arrow head. I don’t think it’s the heads fault. I think I need to accept that I can’t hit a shoulder with a 4 blade head and a 26” draw length. I am shooting the 175gr with 75gr insert so the weight is right around 500gr and 63lbs draw weight. I can’t think of why it didn’t penetrate better aside from the fact that with my short DL I will be better off with a two blade or with bleeders. Now I’m even nervous about bleeders.

I had the same set up, but 2 blade. It went through shoulder and vitals. Destroyed arteries above heart. Died within 20 yards. My opinion would say go with 2 blade.

 

[raisins]

It still should be common sense...it's like people just suddenly noticed that a deer's leg/shoulder has a funky angle that leaves a nice patch of vitals exposed and overreacted to that knowledge.

Ranch Fairy brought up his knowledge as a respiratory therapist and assured everyone of where they should be shooting.

 

[mattsteg]

Ranch Fairy brought up his knowledge as a respiratory therapist and assured everyone of where they should be shooting.

Breathtaking!

 

[raisins]

Breathtaking!

Not joking, in one of his videos he said "As a respiratory therapist, I know more about the vascular system than you do, so you should listen to me" (I paraphrase).

 

[Kyrodan]

Ranch Fairy brought up his knowledge as a respiratory therapist and assured everyone of where they should be shooting.

He also recognizes not all people always make the perfect shots. Human.