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Lead ammo ban

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Yeah ...I've never duck hunted so I probably shouldn't be commenting but I do work with tungston everyday....breath in some thoriated dust and go get an x-ray....become dr Manhattan. It's so brittle I'm surprised the pellets don't shatter
 
Weldabeast said:
Yeah ...I've never duck hunted so I probably shouldn't be commenting but I do work with tungston everyday....breath in some thoriated dust and go get an x-ray....become dr Manhattan. It's so brittle I'm surprised the pellets don't shatter
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I think they alloy it with tin or nickel. I know for sure bismuth has to have tin alloyed. It's definitely hard. Doesn't deform which helps it hold a tighter pattern.
 
Good news is that the powers to be can ban all the lead ammo they want. It still doesn’t make the hoard of lead bullets I have any less effective.


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Aeds151 said:
Good news is that the powers to be can ban all the lead ammo they want. It still doesn’t make the hoard of lead bullets I have any less effective.


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It does make them expensive if you get caught with them though.
 
Nutterbuster said:
Yeah, tungsten weights are nice. Crazy how small a quarter ounce tungsten bullet weight is.

And it doesn't make you more retardeder. ;)
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Where can I find Tungsten .50 ca. round balls that weigh in at the same as lead?? They'd be $12 each.
 
The whole lead poisoning thing is vastly overblown. You can only get lead poisoning from two ways. Ingestion and inhalation. And for ingestion it has to be in a particulate size that is small enough to enter the blood stream. That is why lead paint was dangerous. Kids would eat the paint chips and get lead poisoning. Swallowing a large lead fishing sinker is highly unlikely to harm you since it is one big chunk and will just pass through you. Molten lead is only dangerous (aside from burning yourself) if it is heated to a boiling point. Just like water, lead has a temperature where it is liquid and then there is a point where it boils. When it boils, lead vapor is released, just like water vapor is released as steam. Home casting furnaces can't reach this temperature. I knew a guy who was a college professor in Louisiana who cast bullets pretty much 8 hours a day every weekend in a tiny hobby room for years. He smoked a pipe also and the room would be a haze of smoke. After a few years of this he started to worry that he might have high lead levels in his blood, so he went and had the blood tests. He did not have elevated lead levels in his blood. There are people walking around today with lead bullets in their bodies and aside from it being a bullet in their body, there is no issue with it poisoning them.

A raw piece of lead dropped on the ground will oxidize very quickly and that oxide layer will create a shell around the object. Lead does not continue to break down like iron. Look at lead bullets recovered from Civil War battlefields. They have a grey patina on them and that is it. Look at an iron object from the same time frame and it will be much more degraded.

Banning lead is back door gun control. Plain and simple. These people want to take away all hunting and shooting. They may not come for you today but they will get around to what you care about sooner or later. Look at the British. They cannot bowhunt or own a pellet rifle that produces over 12 foot pounds without a license.
 
NMSbowhunter said:
Banning lead is back door gun control. Plain and simple. These people want to take away all hunting and shooting. They may not come for you today but they will get around to what you care about sooner or later. Look at the British. They cannot bowhunt or own a pellet rifle that produces over 12 foot pounds without a license.
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Ah yes, that is why duck hunting has become illegal in MN in the 30 yrs since the banning of lead shot. The fear is strong in this one

“Fear is the path to the dark side … fear leads to anger … anger leads to hate … hate leads to suffering.”
 
NMSbowhunter said:
Banning lead is back door gun control. Plain and simple.
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I respectfully disagree. Do I agree with a total lead bullet ban? No. Do I agree with keeping lead out of waterfowl habitat and generally being careful with it given its known toxicity? Yes.

And as far as backdoor gun control goes...I don't think it'll work. Plenty of outdoor writers have come to the conclusion that it didn't take long after a lead waterfowl shot ban for steel to become equally as cheap and effective as the lead loads they replaced. I know plenty of guys already preferring copper bullets in their carry guns and hunting rifles.

And, even in California, there's nothing stopping you from owning lead ammo or even shooting it, as long as it isn't being used for hunting.
 
Waterfowling seems to have survived the ban decades ago pretty well intact.

It takes me about 5 years to go through a box of shells so I'm not too personally concerned about the cost.

Imo hunters can't talk out of both sides of their mouth on this issue. "We are conservation"...ok then, there are better alternatives to lead w/r/t conservation. So are we conservationists, or pick and choose conservationists?
 
Blacksmith said:
Where can I find Tungsten .50 ca. round balls that weigh in at the same as lead?? They'd be $12 each.
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www.americanrifleman.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | TomBob Outdoors ITX Lead-Free Muzzleloading Round Balls

Likely the only lead-free muzzleloading-specific round balls, TomBob Outdoors’ American-made ITX 10 g/cc balls are constructed from materials with no significant traces of lead.
www.americanrifleman.org www.americanrifleman.org

You'll be just as fine as the thousands of duck hunters have been.
 
Nutterbuster said:
I respectfully disagree. Do I agree with a total lead bullet ban? No. Do I agree with keeping lead out of waterfowl habitat and generally being careful with it given its known toxicity? Yes.

And as far as backdoor gun control goes...I don't think it'll work. Plenty of outdoor writers have come to the conclusion that it didn't take long after a lead waterfowl shot ban for steel to become equally as cheap and effective as the lead loads they replaced. I know plenty of guys already preferring copper bullets in their carry guns and hunting rifles.

And, even in California, there's nothing stopping you from owning lead ammo or even shooting it, as long as it isn't being used for hunting.
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Yeah, I don't disagree with banning its use for waterfowl hunting. That is the one area it makes sense. Banning lead for things like squirrel hunting is ridiculous though. 22 ammo is expensive enough right now, as is, but imagine if you replace the lead with copper. Copper projectiles for rifle bullets make the loads much more expensive and unnecessary for most game. All copper rounds work but there is a lot of technology, especially metallurgy that goes into making them expand reliably. Get it wrong and you have basically a FMJ. To get it right costs a lot of money. A good old cup and core bullet works well on 99% of the animals we have in the US and poses no threat to the environment.

Tungsten is very expensive and relatively difficult to source. It is also very hard and so it is not well suited to a lot of applications. If you start trying to use tungsten and copper for everything that is going to drive the price for those commodities way up. We are talking billions more rounds annually.
 
I work with lead at work making ammunition for the last 10 years and my blood is about the same as before, maybe little higher in the winter with less fresh air coming in, but it varies each time. I think the internet has made me more retardeder than lead has…


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I melted lead all the time as a kid since it was just about the only metal that was easy enough to melt over a fire and gave zero thought to contamination. I have picked lead shot out of many a dove and quail while eating it and I'm sure I missed some and ingested it. The same is true of duck gumbo. I got through college with a 3.8 GPA in spite of all that lead exposure not to mention the Jack Daniels, lol.
 
Honestly this is hilarious to me. Lead is a carcinogen, plain and simple. All the anecdotal evidence of "well my grandpa ate lead and he's fine" and "my cousin has a bullet lodged in him still" is still anecdotal.

The biggest enemy of the 2a is the 2a crowd itself. When everything becomes a "total gun ban" or "totalitarianism' without any supporting evidence, often ignoring the actual laws or regulations, your hurting your own causes. Conservation means leaving the land in as good or better condition than when you arrive.
 
Weldabeast said:
Not being argumentative at all or saying lead isn't dangerous....just pointing this out to put in perspective

Bacon, ham, Salomi, hotdogs in group 1 carcinogen....
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Id wager not many people hunt with a hotdog, or leave ham sandwiches in the woods and streams. If it became an issue, than that's a discussion for then. Meanwhile lead leeching into water and animals is an issue.
 
Lead comes from the ground...we don't make it. It is an element not a compound or a chemical.
 
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