Lightest double step sticks to date 1.2lbs

[denots]

Why not put a peice of 1-2" aluminum square tubing on the inside at the bolt location. Fender washer on the outside. I have some carbon fiber coming and that was my plan. I believe it will remove the stress from around the bolt hole and transfer it to the face of the carbon. Essentially sandwiching the carbon in between the aluminum and the fender washer. I believe this is basically the idea that Swamp Fox was trying to come up with the balsa-wood but it should be easier to get a snug fit with the aluminum. I believe also Dano suggested something of the sort earlier in this thread.

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[Deltahuntr]

Not worried about drilling for the standoffs because downward weight/force applied?

We are trying to avoid drilling at all. If the step and stand of can be attached to a cap independent of the carbon post and attached to one another by a cable between the caps then you are only applying downward pressure on the cable. The post only maintains alignment of the step/stand off.

 

[tam9492]

Ok. I was wondering if you were including the standoff with the cap/step. Seems like an aluminum extension cap could be placed on top. Then you can drill the step and standoff like normal, and then place the whole cap on the end. Good work, gents.

 

[denots]

We are trying to avoid drilling at all. If the step and stand of can be attached to a cap independent of the carbon post and attached to one another by a cable between the caps then you are only applying downward pressure on the cable. The post only maintains alignment of the step/stand off.

Then you'll probably you'll have to attach it permanently to one in cap, fish it through the two, drill a hole through the other end cap pull it all tight and then secure it.

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[Deltahuntr]

Then you'll probably you'll have to attach it permanently to one in cap, fish it through the two, drill a hole through the other end cap pull it all tight and then secure it.

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Yep, something like that. Permanent attachment at. Bottom and a thread adjustable attachment at top cap so you can put it under tension between the two and never drill the post.

 

[tam9492]

What about the versa button?

 

[denots]

What about the versa button?

Good point. I think I'll try to simplest solution first. If it doesn't work and I tear up all the sticks it'll just be a $240 experiment.

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[LockStock&Arrow]

So.... I bit the bullet and called a few companies and spoke with a few of their engineers. They will be getting back to me. I am scared to hear the quotes becuse the phrase “ make a custom mandrel” was said by all I spoke to.

This is based on a needed wall thickness, which is much greater than Swampfox’s and mine ( I couldn’t help myself and ordered from an American company and a thicker walled tube at that) .

I had a high number in my head for what this actually might cost. However, I am a mountain hunter so I will pay a high amount for weight savings, probably an amount that would make most think I am both nuts and wealthy ( the wealthy part I am not).

I am guessing once I see quotes I won’t even reply to their emails thanking them for their time.

I know that fishing rod mandrels cost thousands. So a “ custom mandrel” for a specific OD and wall thickness square tube has to be at least that. Never mind paying for the carbon fiber of that size to make the tube.

I would still like to work through this and find a solution that allows us to use carbon fiber to save on weight. Just posted this so if anyone was wondering about simply taking a carbon fiber stick , drilling it, and directly bolting on LW XOP parts what we would realistically be looking at possibly going through or spending.

There is a reason why these stick companies use the specific wall thickness of aluminum that they do... all the different makes that I personally own ibeam type Hawks and tube type LWs are about the same thickness for wall diameter.

 

[LockStock&Arrow]

Update, no US company that I have found will produce a stick of the needed dimensions to be used for human weight bearing purposes. Still looking here and abroad...

 

[Swampfox]

Thanks for continuing the search. I’ve been pretty busy and don’t see me getting back to this project till after the season. I assure you it’s on the list, I was walking 2 miles one way each hunt this week and sure was wishing I had carbon sticks. To be continued...

 

[Swampfox]

So I finally had some time this afternoon to continue the work on these. I attempted to mitigate the failure of the stick along the side walls by installing a second bolt through the step. While this did keep to side wall from crushing, it cracked the back side of the stick.

As of now I’m looking for a carbon stick with thicker walls. These super thin sticks are a complete failure....back to the drawing board.

 

[bow shot]

So I finally had some time this afternoon to continue the work on these. I attempted to mitigate the failure of the stick along the side walls by installing a second bolt through the step. While this did keep to side wall from crushing, it cracked the back side of the stick.

As of now I’m looking for a carbon stick with thicker walls. These super thin sticks are a complete failure....back to the drawing board.

Not so My friend. I know you've gained extremely valueable insights and experience. It will serve you well. And you contributed greatly to all of us I've learned a ton here... so thanks very much.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I doubt a thicker stick will work. As soon as you put a hole in carbon fiber it will weaken it significantly because you break the interlocking fibers that give it strength. Keep trying but I have my doubts about it all.

 

[Swampfox]

I doubt a thicker stick will work. As soon as you put a hole in carbon fiber it will weaken it significantly because you break the interlocking fibers that give it strength. Keep trying but I have my doubts about it all.

I had a 12”X12” sheet of carbon built specifically for drilling holes in it to create the steps. It has a lot to do with the layer angles and type of material layered in between the carbon to prevent elongation and breakage of the hole.Since starting this project I’ve spent a vast amount of time and money studying carbon fiber. To say I went really really deep down the rabbit hole on this venture is an understatement. Last month I converted a thesis in Chinese to English just to learn about drill bit material and drill speed that produces the best hole that won’t rip the fibers but cut it smoothly.

I pretty much knew that these sticks were going to fail today but had to try them again since I already had them. Wish I knew then what I know now( never would have bought Chinese carbon sticks).

As far as the sticks I want, I believe I’m just going to have to build them. I’ve been getting quotes that are astronomically high even for carbon fiber. No company wants to do such a small run on square tubing like I’m requesting. However I started looking into purchasing the tooling and believe after several sets I would break even...I think.

The real question would be if it would save weight???


I also learned in my research that I won’t be using pultruded carbon fiber rods for bolts. Although I do think there’s a solution to make them suitable for most people.

Just takes money and time...

 

[Swampfox]

Proof that holes in carbon fiber are feasible

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I had a 12”X12” sheet of carbon built specifically for drilling holes in it to create the steps. It has a lot to do with the layer angles and type of material layered in between the carbon to prevent elongation and breakage of the hole.Since starting this project I’ve spent a vast amount of time and money studying carbon fiber. To say I went really really deep down the rabbit hole on this venture is an understatement. Last month I converted a thesis in Chinese to English just to learn about drill bit material and drill speed that produces the best hole that won’t rip the fibers but cut it smoothly.

I pretty much knew that these sticks were going to fail today but had to try them again since I already had them. Wish I knew then what I know now( never would have bought Chinese carbon sticks).

As far as the sticks I want, I believe I’m just going to have to build them. I’ve been getting quotes that are astronomically high even for carbon fiber. No company wants to do such a small run on square tubing like I’m requesting. However I started looking into purchasing the tooling and believe after several sets I would break even...I think.

The real question would be if it would save weight???


I also learned in my research that I won’t be using pultruded carbon fiber rods for bolts. Although I do think there’s a solution to make them suitable for most people.

Just takes money and time...

You seem more knowledgeable than me. But is it worth the time money with possibly no weight advantage by the time you get the type of carbon fibre you need
I hope you are successful and applaud your innovation and persistence
Best of luck


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[Swampfox]

You seem more knowledgeable than me. But is it worth the time money with possibly no weight advantage by the time you get the type of carbon fibre you need
I hope you are successful and applaud your innovation and persistence
Best of luck


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Thanks and I’m always open to criticism on this. My wife thinks I’m crazy and I suppose I am to some extent. But it would probably take the people of this forum to say I’m crazy before I’d truly recognize it as a pointless venture.

 

[Gumbymedic]

Thanks and I’m always open to criticism on this. My wife thinks I’m crazy and I suppose I am to some extent. But it would probably take the people of this forum to say I’m crazy before I’d truly recognize it as a pointless venture.

Totally unrelated but I thought you might like to see these given your screen name

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Thanks and I’m always open to criticism on this. My wife thinks I’m crazy and I suppose I am to some extent. But it would probably take the people of this forum to say I’m crazy before I’d truly recognize it as a pointless venture.

All innovative people have to be borderline crazy to try what others have not tried


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[EricS]

Could the step and standoff be welded to a piece of aluminum tubing and epoxied into place on the cf tubing?