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Madrock Safeguard makes me uneasy

greg728 said:
I think I've just been afraid to open to brake fully I was always under the impression that it was a combination of two hands and finding a sweet spot with the madrock brake.
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I've posted this before, but everyone should test their Safeguard at low, safe heights and pull the lever wide open and let it rip. I and others have done this, with out of spec 8mm Oplux, and cannot achieve enough speed to cause damage or fear. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, but try it and see. It gives you greater confidence in the Safeguard once you try it.
 
greg728 said:
Ive been practicing with my madrock trying to decide if I want to stick with the one sticking thing. The issue I’m having is my madrock is very all or nothing feeling and it’s tough to find that sweet spot when I’m rappelling down. I either don’t open it enough and don’t go anywhere or I open it too much and I rappel very fast. I’m not sure if it’s my device or the amount of tension I’m keeping with my brake hand on the tag end of the rope. Has anyone had similar concerns and is there another belay device that’s a little more forgiving and less sensitive? I’m open to feedback I just want to get more comfortable with my equipment.
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Get yourself a petzl gri gri + and you’ll never look back
 
deerfly said:
yes of course, you need to have enough separation between madrock on your bridge and autoblock on your linemans loop or secondary bridge to avoid that condition. I can't imagine madrock being against using an autoblock, more likely they're against using it wrong.

But again tying autoblock (correctly) is very easy to do and safe. I don't use mechanical belay devices for rappel any more, I use figure 8 or munter instead. When I'm descending with the intention of resetting or removing my platform I use the autoblock on my linesman loop so I can work hands free. Otherwise I tend the tag end by hand.
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Interesting warning from Mad Rock Safeguard paperwork.

First of all, yes, I actually read through their paperwork. Wasn’t too worried about how to operate it, I was using a Grigri when they first came out and the safeguard is very similar. Anyway, I found an interesting warning against using a backup friction knot on the braking end...
saddlehunter.com

Madrock literally says do not do what you are suggesting
 
deerfly said:
yes of course, you need to have enough separation between madrock on your bridge and autoblock on your linemans loop or secondary bridge to avoid that condition. I can't imagine madrock being against using an autoblock, more likely they're against using it wrong.

But again tying autoblock (correctly) is very easy to do and safe. I don't use mechanical belay devices for rappel any more, I use figure 8 or munter instead. When I'm descending with the intention of resetting or removing my platform I use the autoblock on my linesman loop so I can work hands free. Otherwise I tend the tag end by hand.
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Do you hang on an 8 or munter?
 
I hang on a tether with prusik to bridge then transition to climbing line with a mini eight on bridge to rappel. If I plan to reset my platform or remove it I'll use an autoblock on my linesman loop to be able to go hands free during the adjustment. Otherwise I skip the autoblock and manage the tag end by hand.

Lately, I'll hook up the mini eight after transitioning to my tether after the climb, but leave just enough slack so the min-eight carabiner floats just below my tether carabiner the apex of the bridge. That way I'm primarily attached to the tether, but backed up on climbing line and ready to rappel. I do this mostly on afternoon sits so I don't have to futz around in the dark doing the transition to rappel. Everything is there already, its just a matter of unloading the tether, disconnect and loading the mini-eight...

If I can find a picture or showing all this I'll post them.
 
So reading all these threads on here has me asking myself a lot of questions…

I currently run a MadRock safeguard. i have the Sterling Canyon CI-V. i’ve not had any issues with coming down the tree. I use my breaking hand and can open the lever all the way and control my descent down to the ground….

What is the difference in the GriGri and MadRock (other then design). I see they both have the lever.

Am I operating mine wrong? by opening the lever all the way and using my brake hand to control how fast i come down the tree?

I’m using mine at height as my tether to the tree. I do put a prusik knot by my screw link to keep my line tight to the tree. So if any slack is introduced, my main line doesn’t fall below my knees.

Should i not be using my madrock as my all in one? That was the purpose i went to this device, so i wasn’t transitioning in the tree between ropes and devices…..
 
jcassell207 said:
So reading all these threads on here has me asking myself a lot of questions…

I currently run a MadRock safeguard. i have the Sterling Canyon CI-V. i’ve not had any issues with coming down the tree. I use my breaking hand and can open the lever all the way and control my descent down to the ground….

What is the difference in the GriGri and MadRock (other then design). I see they both have the lever.

Am I operating mine wrong? by opening the lever all the way and using my brake hand to control how fast i come down the tree?

I’m using mine at height as my tether to the tree. I do put a prusik knot by my screw link to keep my line tight to the tree. So if any slack is introduced, my main line doesn’t fall below my knees.

Should i not be using my madrock as my all in one? That was the purpose i went to this device, so i wasn’t transitioning in the tree between ropes and devices…..
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You can use your Madrock on your tether line. It’s much stronger than say a ropeman or kong duck however if you are using it to hold a position rather than rappel, you should tie it off on the device (do not autoblock on the brake line or tie it below as the device needs the rope to be able to stretch and run the rope through it to help with fall arresting if you were to fall. I personally switch to a tether and friction hitch at height. Also you shouldn’t pull your release handle all the way open. You should pull it until it releases at a speed you can comfortably control with your brake hand. With it open and no spring return/ panic feature if your brake hand fatigued or slipped you’d be dropping at a high rate of speed and if you didn’t release the handle quick enough or if it didn’t return to lock (failure) you go straight to the ground. There is a whole page where the warnings and how to’s of Madrock safeguard is addressed. @Vtbow I believe tagged a manufacturer suggestion for tying off the device as well.
lastly we mentioned panic feature and smooth handle operation: the gri gri plus is heavier than a safeguard and a little bulkier but it’s much smoother on handle pressure and speed control than a Madrock is so it’s a better descent in my opinion. Also it has a panic feature so that someone doesn’t accidentally pull the release lever all the way open. This is especially nice for guys who are learning.
 
Use a rope hitch for climbing. Don't rappel on the hitch unless you have a Heat resistant cord.
Maybe consider the figure 9 to rappel on. Seems pretty strait forward. I think a few guys tried it. Kinda big, but functional.

Figure 9 descender

H2 posted this one up. Haven't seen it before or talked about it.
saddlehunter.com
 
Here is good list of hitches you can use.
Distel hitch has worked well for me on my ropes. Eazy to tie. But needs to be a eye to eye.

Friction Hitches

No need to limit it to one hitch, which they are, not knots. A Prusik is one type of these hitches, gets confusing when it is used to refer to all the slide and grip hitches. Prussics seems to be a corruption of Prusik, so still confusing, rant over. Oval VT on the left, with the stopper...
saddlehunter.com
 
greg728 said:
What do you like about it and how does it compare with the madrock?
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Sorry somehow I missed this post….
I like the gri gri plus because it has a panic feature (ie if you panic and pull the lever all the way open, it stops you and you have to reset). And secondly it’s far smoother for descent control. Anyone who has used one agrees its operation is smoother. Safeguards are popular because they are smaller more streamline, but Petzl has been making ascender/descenders and belay devices far longer and are also used in industrial rope and rescue industries. So I trust them far more. They are within $20 of same price and gri gri plus is often available when safeguards are in short supply.
 
I messed with rope sizes and different devices. I like the GriGri+, it seems smoother than the Madrock to me. The release handle on the GriGri+ is plastic, just so you know. You don't have to put too much pressure on it to get it to release.
 
I have a mad rock and a Beal birdie. Beal is built robust a velvet smooth to operate but has a spring so I end up on the madrock a lot.
 
enkriss said:
Careful out there boys…

View attachment 76374
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This photo makes me think about a few things as a newer sticker.

1. Always inspect your gear and trust your gear…until you can’t.
2. Never drop your stick to the ground always have attached to you when you repel.
3. Carry a figure 8 non-mechanical in your pouch.

What other stuff should I be thinking in this event? How did you get down?
 
@enkriss Can you add just a shred of context or explanation to the pic you posted, or a link to where this was already provided if that is the case?? Little dramatic to drop a pic like that and just disappear from the thread.
 
Dramatic?….lol

I posted on another thread.
 
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Inquiring minds want to know! It looks to me that someone broke the release handle off. I think with the handle broken off the rope cannot be released but I'm not sure. Something to check out.
 
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