NEVER hunt a south wind???

[rhagenw]

How many can you fit into one thread?

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

 

[mattsteg]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Can this woodchuck chuck heavy wood arrows (this 'chuck throws trad, maybe a couple of light twigs too) 60 yards downwind (to the North), without being scented? maybe if he wears full scentlok and lives in a scentproof tote in the back of a minivan.

 

[Sniper4hire]

Sounds kind of silly. If you prepare for a south wind, hunt a south wind. We hunt when we can for crying out loud.

 

[kyler1945]

I understand this completely. I read the book and hear what you all are saying loud and clear. He even says "the wind and barometric pressure are along for the ride" in regard to fluctuations of temperature. I see the association between the wind and the tmp but the good Dr. is not entirely clear on this point. He states verbatim that ANY SPOT that requires a south wind to hunt has "statistical odds of taking a deer...so near zero that it isn't worth the effort to climb the tree." That info, even couched in the cold front association/north wind findings, is extreme to me no matter where you are.

Another thing that is worth pointing out, is that he even says in the text that he data set is largely from people hunting "field in the afternoons" with outfitters. These data are from box blinds and ladder stands more than mobile set ups and travel corridor hunts. I think that would make a HUGE difference in your recorded sightings on warm days.

Once again, the context matters. For a hunter living in southern Alabama, from October 1 to December 1, south winds correlate with temps above 60 degrees almost all the time. From December 1 to end of season, south winds correlate with temps above 50 degrees most of the time. Those temperatures drive a significant reduction in daytime deer movement. Really, the way to think about it, is that deer are nocturnal, and this is "standard amount of daytime deer movement". When temperatures drop significantly, RELATIVE to normal temperatures, daytime deer movement goes up significantly. In the south, the difference in the amount of daytime deer movement is drastic. He's not making it up. The data set is huge. It is not surprising that a busy, successful person with other interests, looks at the odds of seeing deer, given HIS EXACT hunting style, would elect not to waste his time.

On the other hand - he freely admits, if the goal is to kill deer, cut shooting lanes into a bedding area and set up on any wind and kill deer with a .300 RUM all day every day. He doesn't say deer stop being deer on a south wind, or with warm temperatures. They just move less during the day. If YOU want to go crawl in their bedroom and shoot them, do it. I do it too. He doesn't.

Why is the FACT that temperature changes correlate strongly with daytime deer movement, and that that fact can go a long way in determining your success hunting, hard for people to swallow?

This thread is a classic example of how social media and news can spin something useful and interesting into a steaming pile of poop. The title of the thread is all that people read, then they post the picture of the deer they killed on a south wind. No one is disputing that a person can be successful killing deer in any conditions. What is not up for debate, and what I think is important, especially for southern hunters, but for everyone really, is that A - Deer are nocturnal creatures, and B - the amount they move during daylight hours is largely impacted by the temperature.

You can use this information to make more informed decisions about when you hunt. Or you can not. But

 

[kyler1945]

This is the same "argument" from the mechanical/fixed blade issue. A study was quoted that showed that mechanicals resulted in a better recovery rate than fixed heads. Another thing that was noted in the study, is that the strongest correlation to recovery was if the arrow passed through the deer. It created a bunch of hooplah, and I don't really care about fixed/mechanical conversation. What was interesting is everyone was so focused on proving their team right, or proving that they can kill a deer on a south wind in our example here, that everyone missed the most important thing the study uncovered. Poke two holes in a deer, and your odds of recovery go up to such a degree compared to one hole, that when you control for type, you realize the difference between fixed/mechanical heads don't make a lick of difference across time.

This is the same point here. Of course you can do a whole lot of things hunting that dictate success or failure. Humans are amazingly adaptable creatures - that's why there's 7 billion of us. But why anyone wants to ignore the fact that temperature change has a larger influence on daytime deer movement than any other factor, when all other factors have been controlled for in a multivariate analysis, is insane to me. What you do with that information is up to you...

 

[rhagenw]

So does that mean all of who has kills on south winds are awesome hunters??? (Just pulling your chain...this is social media)

 

[dalton916]

Oddly enough, I’m reading the book right now to see what all the fuss is about. SC correlates nicely with Alabama, btw. So anyway it was 82° with a S this past Saturday when the above deer was killed.

I guess it’s just the “there are no absolutes” and “devil’s advocate” side of me.....or perhaps the “grumpy old bastard”......, but as I’m sitting there reading all this “never this”, “never that” stuff I decided I was going to kill a deer just to spite the good Dr. so I grabbed my A2 (see above “sides” and know this was influenced by another thread on here, lol) in case something I wanted to shoot wandered in close enough and my 25-06 in case something I wanted to kill decided to stay out a ways and climbed up into a “condo” stand we’ve had in place for years.

Had small buck show up around 4:30, 2 does followed it around 5. Two more does around 5:20 came out and fed for a while. These were all close, but way too small.

Then I saw movement at the end of the strip in of me (385 yds). Big doe, but she was in the pines before I could do anything about it or get her picture, lol. About 15 minutes later she came out at 160 yds and the buck above followed her. Grabbed the 25-06 and sent one into the 7 mph S wind and stoned him.

Now, with all that said, I don’t “like” to hunt a S wind/hot day, but to say you can’t is little overboard.

The strip above is surrounded by bedding.
Every big buck on this property historically has bedded about 80 yds directly left of the dread deer laying in the picture above.
The stand I was in hunts best on a S wind.
A LOT of deer have died from this stand.

 

[mattsteg]

Sounds kind of silly. If you prepare for a south wind, hunt a south wind. We hunt when we can for crying out loud.

He's saying...in the area he hunts...south winds are overwhelmingly during warm fronts

and the style he prefers to hunt...is intercepting deer in travel corridor pinch-points

and when it's warm...deer have a strong tendency to be back to their bedding areas more consistently for more of the day

so he doesn't spend his time preparing for south-wind hunting sites and bass fishes on those warm, pleasant days instead.

 

[dalton916]

There’s a LOT of filler material in the book. The useful info could’ve easily been condensed into a pamphlet.

 

[kyler1945]

There’s a LOT of filler material in the book. The useful info could’ve easily been condensed into a pamphlet.

When it's condensed here, you get "Well I kilt a deer on a south wind, that guy's full of crap."....Haha what do you think would happen if it was condensed in print?

He's still an outdoor writer, and that comes along with story telling.

 

[dalton916]

So keep the multiple paragraphs on every piece of equipment he owns? Got it.

 

[dalton916]

I could easily edit that book down to about 30% of its current word count. 25% with a N wind.

 

[rhagenw]

Outdoor writer?? 500 yard shooting lanes in bedding areas?? Tree house on stilts?? His data is all but void for those without leases, large properties and time...

 

[Sipsey]

How does one go about killing over 1000 deer? Must of killed one every other sit...

South winds are great later in the year when the temps are really cold. Early bow season when it's already warm, even warmer temps are BAD!

Alabama used to have a buck a day limit for many years and also had a good many doe days where a person could kill 2 deer a day. I‘ve seen his pile of antlers and have no doubt as to his numbers. He also had some great hunting land, and he was hunting with a saddle-like homemade stand 30 years ago.

 

[mattsteg]

Outdoor writer?? 500 yard shooting lanes in bedding areas?? Tree house on stilts?? His data is all but void for those without leases, large properties and time...

That sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

Outdoor writer? what does that even mean, other than if you read a book, someone needs to have written it?

500 yard shooting lanes in bedding areas? if you can't do this (or have absolutely zero desire to do) then take from it the knowledge that "deer move in daylight, but mostly within their bedding cover"

And regarding time - if you're short on it, in theory you'd want to make the most of what you have, wouldn't you?

 

[kyler1945]

That sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

Outdoor writer? what does that even mean, other than if you read a book, someone needs to have written it?

500 yard shooting lanes in bedding areas? if you can't do this (or have absolutely zero desire to do) then take from it the knowledge that "deer move in daylight, but mostly within their bedding cover"

And regarding time - if you're short on it, in theory you'd want to make the most of what you have, wouldn't you?

Haha - Hunting when statistically it's most efficient to do so is flat out ridiculous! I'm going to edit this book down to the 10% that is useful to me, the rest is just pointless window dressing eating up my time... Here, please hold the end of this log while I tend to this splinter.

 

[rhagenw]

That sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

Outdoor writer? what does that even mean, other than if you read a book, someone needs to have written it?

500 yard shooting lanes in bedding areas? if you can't do this (or have absolutely zero desire to do) then take from it the knowledge that "deer move in daylight, but mostly within their bedding cover"

And regarding time - if you're short on it, in theory you'd want to make the most of what you have, wouldn't you?

All outdoor writers hunt prime private property

the fact that Alabama has there tag limit speaks of the deer number down there so private land hunting must be a cake walk

all deer move during daylight in bedding area hence all the nay sayers in this thread

Do you have the luxury to only hunt south wind days or any day you can??

it’s just not relatable to most people in most areas...

 

[rhagenw]

Those statistics are regional so those statistics don’t apply to most people lol

 

[Sniper4hire]

He's saying...in the area he hunts...south winds are overwhelmingly during warm fronts

and the style he prefers to hunt...is intercepting deer in travel corridor pinch-points

and when it's warm...deer have a strong tendency to be back to their bedding areas more consistently for more of the day

so he doesn't spend his time preparing for south-wind hunting sites and bass fishes on those warm, pleasant days instead.

I understand. I guess I'm just one of those who doesn't get enough hunt time, so i'd find a way. Actually i do. here in MI, an east wind is a bastard wind for my area. But the past few yesars, we seem to be getting an extraordinary amount of wind from the east. Rather than sit out precious hunt time, I set a couple stand spots I can go to, rather than nothing, without disturbing my best areas. But I def agree, better to not hunt a bad wind, than ruin a spot being overzealous.

 

[rhagenw]

Obviously I’m trolling people with access to leases and large private properties preaching what magazines and tv shows swear by