Painting my saddle.

[PEEJAY]

The small surface area color of a saddle does not matter one bit toward hunting success, and if you think it does, you need to spend time to improve your hunting skills and knowledge and forget about camo. Painting clothing and other non-life support gear doesn't matter, but saddles and ropes are no-go, and even the beloved ozone generators, permethrin, and other scent killers should be kept away from them. This discussion is the equivalent of taking a knife and intentionally cutting a few strands on your tether and ising it - probably won't fail in most cases, but why would you ever risk it?

I was getting ready to write this. Camo is wayyyyy overmarketed. You dont need a ghillie suit in a tree. On the ground, fine... but i wear a brown flannel in the tree during early fall and never get busted if i dont screw it up some other way. There are big black boils growing on the trunks of trees everywhere. THat cruzer in black wont affect a thing. A 6ft 200lb man swingin around for a shot is what got you busted, doesnt matter what you got on. A big ball of ghillie is gonna freak out a buck way quicker moving around than someone standing perfectly still with a blaze orange saddle on with good back cover. just practice sitting at full draw for more than a minute, i always try to get 2.

 

[PEEJAY]

if i get hot sometimes i take my flannel off and have a long sleeve black thermal on. still doesnt seem to matter even with a pissy lead doe.

 

[Plebe]

Maybe ask Cruzr what they think?

This perhaps done with Sharpie (The black ink in the Fine, Ultra-Fine, Twin Tip, Chisel, Retractable, Mini and Super is permanent ink. The principle solvents are alcohols, but they also contain ethylene glycol monobutyl ether. All other Sharpie ink colors are Permchrome ink. For these the principle solvents are also alcohols, but no glycol ethers are used.)

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Here's a thought - what about a ghillie for a saddle? I'm picturing a shaggy apron sort of thing that attaches to MOLLE loops, or clips to the top webbing.

MossyAss by MossyOak?

I made one once. A saddle with the leaves from an old 3D suit sewn into it. Looked awesome but after walking through the thick thorn bushes and palm hammocks, it tore many of them off the saddle. It wouldn’t be bad if you packed it in but it’s not great for walking in, just because it catches every thorn and loose stick… those who ground stalk in ghillies know the struggle.
I mean unless you don’t mind replacing your saddle every season which some guys do anyway

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok guys I tried to stay out of this but I need to say this. Do NOT paint your saddle. Saddles are nylon and polyester. The chemical agents in paints can and do cause degradation of the materials in the webbing and fabric. On top of causing degradation of the material it also limits the webbings elasticity. So if a fall occurred the webbing may break prematurely or not absorb as much shock load as intended….

If you feel like you MUST add camo coloring to your saddle material, then use FELT marker pens. In 45 plus years of webbing inspections, not a single rigging inspector has ever identified a failure due to a felt marker pen drawing on the webbing (they do this for certification purposes, also some companies do this for identification of crew ownership) but paint and even fabric paint pens can damage your saddle

 

[tailgunner]

I hope this doesn't come off as bad, but I see people giving advice here that is counter to the advice of experts and testing and uses, hate to say it, bad logic. I feel I have to risk that.

Here's some data on climbing ropes and magic markers. If a magic marker can do this to a climbing rope, then spray paint is likely worse. Dynamic ropes are made of nylon, just like saddle webbing.

https://theuiaa.org/documents/safety/Notification_about_the_marking_of_ropes_by_climbers.pdf

Also, I have to point this out so that others do not read other posts and get hurt:

Stating "I spray painted my saddle and didn't die" should be as compelling a reason to follow suit as "I got really drunk and drove home and didn't wreck". It is an anecdote, not data and ignores probability.

This has been brought up here before and many people said "don't paint your saddle or other life support, especially with anything containing a solvent". So, I don't think this thread is reflective of what folks would say here if all members were polled.

A solid color saddle in an earth tone that contrasts your outer wear helps to break up your outline and is not a concern for a deer detecting you at all. In fact, if you had sections of cloth, like a saddle, sewn all over your clothes randomly, it would probably be really good camo.

good info this was new to me.you think it wouldnt be after decades of painting nylon straps .and seeing them get hard and brittle.maybe not with alight dusting.but you realy have to soak it to see it.and they get stiff

 

[Plebe]

Given this is a mesh saddle, it'd be easy to sew patches of material to it, without even penetrating the existing saddle fabric at all.

 

[Plebe]

Ok guys I tried to stay out of this but I need to say this. Do NOT paint your saddle. Saddles are nylon and polyester. The chemical agents in paints can and do cause degradation of the materials in the webbing and fabric. On top of causing degradation of the material it also limits the webbings elasticity. So if a fall occurred the webbing may break prematurely or not absorb as much shock load as intended….

If you feel like you MUST add camo coloring to your saddle material, then use FELT marker pens. In 45 plus years of webbing inspections, not a single rigging inspector has ever identified a failure due to a felt marker pen drawing on the webbing (they do this for certification purposes, also some companies do this for identification of crew ownership) but paint and even fabric paint pens can damage your saddle

@raisns report specifically says felt tipped pens and markers. Are FELT marker pens something different (a brand)? or like something specific to the fabric industry for marking felt?

If they don't use a paint (pigment solution), do they use a dye? If a dye, water soluble? Natural dye, or synthetic?

With some work, maybe this all could be sorted to destructive components.

Anyway, the obvious course of action for OP, is to buy a new saddle in today's latest and greatest camo. Oh, and don't paint the Cruzr if for no other reason...resale value.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

@raisns report specifically says felt tipped pens and markers. Are FELT marker pens something different (a brand)? or like something specific to the fabric industry for marking felt?

If they don't use a paint (pigment solution), do they use a dye? If a dye, water soluble? Natural dye, or synthetic?

With some work, maybe this all could be sorted to destructive components.

Anyway, the obvious course of action for OP, is to buy a new saddle in today's latest and greatest camo. Oh, and don't paint the Cruzr if for no other reason...resale value.

Felt markers are a little different than pens however the tips would be similar and neither should cause degradation of the material. Paint is a different animal. Dying nylon is a little different simply because for the material to readily take dye (such as rit dye) you have to add it to water, then heat the water to a fairly high temperature like 200 degrees or more. That temp for a short duration of time shouldn’t do permanent damage to nylon or polyester however it will damage amsteel or polyethylene so be careful with dying simply due to the heat factor. The rit synthetic dye itself won’t hurt the material but it’s not easy to maintain the temps to get the dye to permeate and I still would never dye my webbing body, bridge or linesman loops because if they are even slightly damaged you could be injured or worse.
Simply put I would still recommend a felt marker if someone feels they must camo color a saddle. You control the color, can inspect for pressure or abrasion damages as well as draw some unique designs that way.
But as stated camo saddles are available and also camo won’t save you from being busted if you are moving around too much or too quickly in the tree

 

[CooterBrown]

Years ago I took the competent person course for inspecting fall related gear by Miller. They required only using a Sharpie brand permanent marker for use on safety harnesses. Not sure if that's just the one brand they had tested or if there is something different about them but they actually put out a letter stating that that is the only brand that they will allow.

 

[Plebe]

I hope this doesn't come off as bad, but I see people giving advice here that is counter to the advice of experts and testing and uses, hate to say it, bad logic. I feel I have to risk that.

Here's some data on climbing ropes and magic markers. If a magic marker can do this to a climbing rope, then spray paint is likely worse. Dynamic ropes are made of nylon, just like saddle webbing.

https://theuiaa.org/documents/safety/Notification_about_the_marking_of_ropes_by_climbers.pdf

Also, I have to point this out so that others do not read other posts and get hurt:

Stating "I spray painted my saddle and didn't die" should be as compelling a reason to follow suit as "I got really drunk and drove home and didn't wreck". It is an anecdote, not data and ignores probability.

This has been brought up here before and many people said "don't paint your saddle or other life support, especially with anything containing a solvent". So, I don't think this thread is reflective of what folks would say here if all members were polled.

A solid color saddle in an earth tone that contrasts your outer wear helps to break up your outline and is not a concern for a deer detecting you at all. In fact, if you had sections of cloth, like a saddle, sewn all over your clothes randomly, it would probably be really good camo.

It's pretty interesting to read more on this blanket warning, for a fuller picture.

1. The specifics of how they test weakening on the rope.
2. Various rope mfg testing results with specific marking solutions
3. The Sharpie / Edding 3000 useage debate...and testing

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

It's pretty interesting to read more on this blanket warning, for a fuller picture.

1. The specifics of how they test weakening on the rope.
2. Various rope mfg testing results with specific marking solutions
3. The Sharpie / Edding 3000 useage debate...and testing

I think a reason for the UIAA warning was specifically because they couldn’t test or verify the types of pens or ink being used. So it’s a blanket warning. Also it specifically mentions on ropes, not slings or harnesses. The ropes stretch by 30% or more for energy absorption. Makes me wonder how much of that is due to the fact that dynamic ropes have very soft sensitive covers, if they are scratched up in the coloring process, since the covers help support the strength of the rope. Also if some of the pens dries harder and decreased the ropes ability to stretch that would make a difference. I didn’t use UIAA for reference, I used a report from the head of an inspection/testing committee for rigging slings and webbing. Again I agree 100% that you should not paint (or even dye) your saddle. Having a cool color scheme is not worth the risk of equipment failure

 

[Plebe]

I think a reason for the UIAA warning was specifically because they couldn’t test or verify the types of pens or ink being used. So it’s a blanket warning. Also it specifically mentions on ropes, not slings or harnesses. The ropes stretch by 30% or more for energy absorption. Makes me wonder how much of that is due to the fact that dynamic ropes have very soft sensitive covers, if they are scratched up in the coloring process, since the covers help support the strength of the rope. Also if some of the pens dries harder and decreased the ropes ability to stretch that would make a difference. I didn’t use UIAA for reference, I used a report from the head of an inspection/testing committee for rigging slings and webbing. Again I agree 100% that you should not paint (or even dye) your saddle. Having a cool color scheme is not worth the risk of equipment failure

Do I think it's worth risk, no.
Are there safe alternatives to coloring with dyes or pigment coatings (paints), yes

Probably, enough said.

But I feel the UIAA notification on its own lacks a lot of context. It's a good starting point for anyone delving into this and I'll leave it there.

 

[Iron_llama]

I was getting ready to write this. Camo is wayyyyy overmarketed. You dont need a ghillie suit in a tree. On the ground, fine... but i wear a brown flannel in the tree during early fall and never get busted if i dont screw it up some other way. There are big black boils growing on the trunks of trees everywhere. THat cruzer in black wont affect a thing. A 6ft 200lb man swingin around for a shot is what got you busted, doesnt matter what you got on. A big ball of ghillie is gonna freak out a buck way quicker moving around than someone standing perfectly still with a blaze orange saddle on with good back cover. just practice sitting at full draw for more than a minute, i always try to get 2.

I've long said that camo is like fishing lures - primarily designed to catch sportsmen. How much difference can a deer really tell between clearance Walmart camo and the premium stuff?

 

[Maverick1]

In the thread posted by @Maverick1 the poster had a fabric panel sewed on and it turned out slick.

Pretty easy on a single panel.

I had suggested something similar to what you've proposed @Iron_llama (I think in a post about VERSAskins outerwear), chiefly that a (seasonal) facelift could be accomplished using a fabric panel connected via MOLLE...easy enough if you've got top and bottom slots, especially on a single panel saddle. Ghillie is an interesting take.

As for paint, I think it was @redsquirrel that had mentioned the option of using a fabric paint marker to make some ASAT like lines to break up a solid panel. While different paints use different binders and solvents, some more suspect than others, I'd personally feel ok adding a few tiger stripes with an acrylic paint on the saddle panel, but do your homework and use your best judgement anytime altering gear.

Yeah, good one. Maybe extend this a bit further and take an ultra conservative approach, something along the lines of “assume anything you paint will disintegrate or break”. Probably not a reality, but might change how one would approach painting anything more than the mesh.

I don’t think having a mesh saddle makes much of a difference, more like personal preference for the hunter, and movement is more important than having a camouflage rear end.

 

[bfriendly]

Ok so what about a sharpie? Or better yet, a permanent marker? I just put a few 5’ marks on my rope…..what did I just do? All it says on the side is Universal permanent marker. Don’t know anything about felt tips and their similarities.

 

[Plebe]

Ok so what about a sharpie? Or better yet, a permanent marker? I just put a few 5’ marks on my rope…..what did I just do? All it says on the side is Universal permanent marker. Don’t know anything about felt tips and their similarities.

Maybe googling on rope marking pens and reading up gets you what you need.

Sharpie and Edding 3000 have been tested by various rope manufacturers, you can read on that. Look at the testing process for ropes and consider how you use the rope.

Universal appears to use a dye and alcohol formulated ink in their permanent markers (MSDS), like sharpie. Hard to do any specific comparison though without the full formulae.

Only you can give it the green light, or not, but perhaps this helps you think about and get the info you need.

 

[AttackMode]

Given this is a mesh saddle, it'd be easy to sew patches of material to it, without even penetrating the existing saddle fabric at all.

I did this with my Phantom. Sewed some ASAT 3D material through the mesh. It looked cool, but probably didn't help me kill anything lol.

 

[tailgunner]

I don't know .you don't need camo to kill deer from 20 feet up.if all you do is climb trees in the dark and sit all day.its true. Dont need it in a blind eather..rather.. like my camo when blackbears and cougers are only feet from me on the ground or in a tree.i don't want other hunters to know my position eather,they won't push game towards me.

 

[BRAY2KAY]

I will agree to disagree on camo versus not camo. A solid color may not mean much to the flat lander's but come to wv where you climb 30 ft in a tree and 10 yards from you is eye level with the deer. Steep mountains make it alittle harder to stay hidden. I've hunted illinois and ohio and it's a little simpler to climb 15 and stay hid. Here's alittle different. If a deer comes on the up hill side of you then anything to help you stay hid will help. Heck even breathing sometimes give you away it seems.