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Picking my first recurve/trad bow

Got another question for you trad shooters. Why are trad bows shot at an angle (not vertically up/down) were as compound bows are shot vertically with no tilt? Is it just to keep the arrow from coming off the shelf? From the YouTube videos I’ve seen they all seem to be shooting with a slit tilt to the bow.

It also has a lot to do with aiming style and using a sight. Most compound shooters use some kind of pin sight, and pin sights don't work too well unless the bow is upright level. Instinctive or point gap aimers can get away with canting the bow, and it might feel more natural.
 
I actually thought it was one of the Commandments :smiley:
Hard to comprehend how it makes that much of a difference but I will definitely be giving it a try. Thanks for the tip!
The of the nice things about push in nocks is you can just turn the nock and see how it effects flight.
Try 12 o'clock and if it doesn't work, its easy to go back to the old way.
 
@Allegheny Tom 12 o'clock cock feather - you are breaking some biblical law! LOL. I have never heard of that, but like you said with push in nocks, it's easy to try and I am about to start my morning practice. Thanks! Also, let us know how the AA fletch works. I have been contemplating burning some of my feathers down to test that out.

The Samick Sage is what my (9 year old) boy and I shoot - i am a lefty. I like that he can shoot 30# limbs at a short draw and I can shoot up to 50# limbs (even higher if I wanted) at 30" draw and it'll slang an arrow very well. Now, I am no expert, and I have not tested more expensive bows, I think that would ruin me. I am going to try and hunt with my samick a few times this coming season and with a bow I built.

As for arrows: Check out the Ranch Fairy youtube arrow tuning video. I had read and read and read about arrow tuning to bow, but watching his videos just made it all come together.
 
Got another question for you trad shooters. Why are trad bows shot at an angle (not vertically up/down) were as compound bows are shot vertically with no tilt? Is it just to keep the arrow from coming off the shelf? From the YouTube videos I’ve seen they all seem to be shooting with a slit tilt to the bow.

Like @Allegheny Tom said. Most people can't their head to get their eye over the arrow, and most coaches will tell you your bow should be online with your head, which is why they can't the bow. It also opens up the sight picture a little bit more.
 
I guess this is as good as anyplace to ask...
Have any of you trad shooters tried shooting their 3 fletch with the cock feather at 12 o'clock? I've just started trying that.
For 50 years, I've always been told that the cock feather should be 9 o'clock (for right handed bows). It was like an unwritten law. But my buddy read in his Black Widow book to shoot it at 12. Wow, it made a huge improvement in my arrow flight.

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My dad has been shooting with the cock feather at 12 for 20 years or so. It was something he played around with and figured out back when he was really in to building bows. I started doing it the past year or so.

I heard Tom Clum say in one of his videos that he shoots with the "cock feather in" I assume he means at 3 o'clock for a RH shooter. He said with what we know about paradox now, fletching clearance doesnt matter.
 
I bought a new longbow. Last week waiting for it to come in. It’s been awhile. Try cock feather in...

I plan on trying 4 fletch razrs. Building a 620-650 gr arrow at around 25% foc. Gonna be slow 160fps lob at 50lb .... we will see.
 
@Allegheny Tom 12 o'clock cock feather - you are breaking some biblical law! LOL. I have never heard of that, but like you said with push in nocks, it's easy to try and I am about to start my morning practice. Thanks! Also, let us know how the AA fletch works. I have been contemplating burning some of my feathers down to test that out.

The Samick Sage is what my (9 year old) boy and I shoot - i am a lefty. I like that he can shoot 30# limbs at a short draw and I can shoot up to 50# limbs (even higher if I wanted) at 30" draw and it'll slang an arrow very well. Now, I am no expert, and I have not tested more expensive bows, I think that would ruin me. I am going to try and hunt with my samick a few times this coming season and with a bow I built.

As for arrows: Check out the Ranch Fairy youtube arrow tuning video. I had read and read and read about arrow tuning to bow, but watching his videos just made it all come together.

There is a lot of useful info in a Black Widow owner's manual. Page 13 talks about shooting the cock feather in different positions. Black Widow mentions that their Signature arrows are fletched with the cock at 12. I'd never heard of that until my buddy and I started our UEFOC arrow builds and we were having trouble getting great flight, (I believe it was because of being over-spined but that's another subject).

My experience with the A&A fletch and also shooting the cock at 12 o'clock is limited to this UEFOC arrow build, so this may not apply to everyone. For many years, I've shot (off the shelf) left wing, 5" parabolic with a high degree of helical and offset, and left single bevel heads. With that old set-up I never tried 12 o'clock cock, or A&A style fletch, or the way Ashby says to set it up.
My new set-up is a big change. 1st, left bevel heads in the heads I wanted are not made so I needed to switch to right bevel, which meant switching to right wing feathers. And as per Ashby, I did away with the helical and the offset. I'm shooting straight fletch with no helical or offset.

A&A are pretty much commercially non-existent. Tuff Head sells little ones (3"??) but nobody sells 4" or 5"A&A so you have to cut them yourself, which isn't really that hard to do with sharp scissors.
At the time, all I had in right wing was 4" parabolic that came with my Grizzly Stik shafts. I cut those and in order to get the A&A shape, I ended up with them only 3.5" A&A...really too short for me. I did have trouble getting the 3.5" to fly with the cock feather at 9 o'clock and I was really skeptical of a 12 o'clock cock but I tried it anyway...wow, they flew a lot better but still not perfect.
I got some full length feathers and cut some 5" A&A and tried them out. I've not yet shot them thru paper or with broad heads, but otherwise, they shoot field points and judo points really nice.

2 advantages with the A&A...They are a lower profile feather, so shelf clearance is better, which may be important to shooting a 12 o'clock cock, I don't know for sure...I've never tried shooting a "standard" style fletch with a 12 o'clock cock.
The other advantage to the A&A fletch is how quietly they shoot when compared to parabolic, helical, offset fletch. A&A shoot faster too, which can offset some trajectory loss when shooting these heavy arrows. My (brave) buddy stood down range to listen for the sound of the arrow in flight. All he heard was the bow...the arrow was silent.
 
My dad has been shooting with the cock feather at 12 for 20 years or so. It was something he played around with and figured out back when he was really in to building bows. I started doing it the past year or so.

I heard Tom Clum say in one of his videos that he shoots with the "cock feather in" I assume he means at 3 o'clock for a RH shooter. He said with what we know about paradox now, fletching clearance doesnt matter.
I'd never imply Tom Clum is wrong, but for me, and my rig, fletch clearance is important. I've turned the nock in all positions with bare shaft and none of the positions made a difference. But after I fletched the shafts, feather position has made a big difference. I'm sure spine, shelf/handle configuration and other things come into play. I did try shooting with my cock feather at 3 and it was the worst of any position...for me.
 
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My dad has been shooting with the cock feather at 12 for 20 years or so. It was something he played around with and figured out back when he was really in to building bows. I started doing it the past year or so.

I heard Tom Clum say in one of his videos that he shoots with the "cock feather in" I assume he means at 3 o'clock for a RH shooter. He said with what we know about paradox now, fletching clearance doesnt matter.

My long bow I’ve being doing the same at 3 o’clock position


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I’ve always shot with cock vane at 9 on compound because otherwise there’s a chance for contact with the cable on my bow. So when I aquired a wooden recurve (this week) I noticed that although there’s no cable there, the cutout in the riser leaves my arrow no where near center shot. I guess that’s the difference in wood and metal. My feathers leave marks on the riser where they contact and my arrows fishtail horribly at this point. I’m still working on tuning.
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I’ve always shot with cock vane at 9 on compound because otherwise there’s a chance for contact with the cable on my bow. So when I aquired a wooden recurve (this week) I noticed that although there’s no cable there, the cutout in the riser leaves my arrow no where near center shot. I guess that’s the difference in wood and metal. My feathers leave marks on the riser where they contact and my arrows fishtail horribly at this point. I’m still working on tuning.
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Your shelf and striker need some work. I hope I can explain this clearly.

You should have some pads on there...seems like most trad bows have leather pads, and you should also have a slight high point that corresponds with the push point of your hand on the handle. The strike plate should also have a little bump or ridge in the same location in relation to the depth of the handle.
These bumps/ridges allow a more exact location for the arrow to ride which reduces the effect of handle torque.

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Got another question for you trad shooters. Why are trad bows shot at an angle (not vertically up/down) were as compound bows are shot vertically with no tilt? Is it just to keep the arrow from coming off the shelf? From the YouTube videos I’ve seen they all seem to be shooting with a slit tilt to the bow.
Canting the bow takes the bow out of your line of sight. Proper form will place the arrow directly under your dominant eye so your sight path will have you looking directly where the arrows flight path will be. You can surely shoot the bow in a vertical orientation but by canting the bow, you really open up the sight picture.
 
Dang it, this site got me again. A new Southwest Archery Spyder is on it's way to my house. I borrowed my buddy's old Bear Grizzly with a 40lb draw weight and that wasn't too bad so I ordered 40lb limbs. I have a beautiful Hummingbird one-pieced recurve that I used to hunt with years ago but it pulls about 60lbs at my draw length so I needed something to regain my form. And now I need new arrows and broad-heads and shooting glove and probably a quiver. Interested in trying carbon arrows with the Spyder. I have only shot wooden arrows out of my old recurve.

I read a random thread because I am bored and the next thing I know my Amex goes flying out of my wallet.
 
I'd never imply Tom Clum is wrong, but for me, and my rig, fletch clearance is important. I've turned the nock in all positions with bare shaft and none of the positions made a difference. But after I fletched the shafts, feather position has made a big difference. I'm sure spine, shelf/handle configuration and other things come into play. I did try shooting with my cock feather at 3 and it was the worst of any position...for me.

No, I'm with you on this one. The reason my dad started playing with feather orientation 20 years ago was because of fletching wear. He found the 12 o'clock postion both shot better and had less feather wear then the 9 o'clock position. I'm sure there is a million variables that can change that but, 12 o'clock has been working for me so far.
 
I've been playing with Cock vane placement as well. Seems like 12 O'Clock has all my arrows parallel in the target. I will test more today.
 
Whoops, I meant feathers, although I have plated with shooting vanes off the recurve. Didn't work too well for me, because I shoot off the shelf
 
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