Questions of a failure

[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

Hey all,

By all means this isn't a rant nor a tangent lol. Just trying to figure out what I am missing due to the fact that I have not been having any success with the "Beast Style Tactics" Or other tactics lol. I have been hunting nothing but known buck bedding areas since the beginning of the season, playing the wind/thermals, etc. I've been seeing deer but only one was a shooter yet I did not get the shot. I hunt primarily Appalachian mountain style terrain on public land(upper 1/3 of the mountain. I hike way in past where most hunters typically go while dropping milkweed on my way in. I do not believe that these areas are heavily pressured due to it taking me anywhere from two to four hours on foot to get to and I don't find any signs of human activity. I'm quiet as can be on my way in. I do not hunt the same spot more than four times a season and I give each spot at least a two to four weeks before going in again when conditions are right. I've scouted heavily in the off season and the sign looked great. I've found their antler sheds and have plenty of trail cam pics of giants. I just can not for the life of me get on the large deer. I'm seeing deer(young bucks and does). Just not the mature bucks I've been hoping for. At this point I am beat(mentally and physically(I know, no excuses) but it's beating me down as the season is near it's closing. I plan to keep at it and not give up. But I need to figure out why am I not successful? What do I need to do differently? Hoping you all could help.

With all of that being said....what am I missing? What am I not doing that other successful big buck killers are doing?

Thanks in advance,
Danny

 

[Phopkins]

You say that you have trailcam pics of target deer, daylight photos? 4 hours to get in, what time are you getting there?
Many of the biggest bucks are nocturnal outside of summer feed patterns and the rut. Unless it gets below normal cold here in central Illinois the mature bucks won't get up to feed til after shooting light has faded. And they're in bed by first light.
Have you thought of hunting sign closer to the truck for late season? I'm guessing there is less pressure now than in November.
That would give you more time in the tree, less walking. Move your trailcam closer to your access and see what's going on there.
Also, if you think you're being stealthy enough don't hesitate to hunt the hottest sign you can find as often as you can. It's go for broke time now!

 

[kyler1945]

How many hours do you think you logged this season in the woods? Sitting, walking, scouting, heading to set, all of it.

How many ‘shooters’ (your definition) have you seen while in the woods, sitting or walking or scouting?

 

[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

Yeah man I have daylight pics of him amongst a couple others. I do believe that this is their core area. I just don’t know exactly where his bed is.
I’m typically starting to hike in around 10am. This gets me setup in the tree NLT 2pm which gives me about three hours of hunting. Thanks for the intel


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[IkemanTX]

^^ good points.

The only thing I take from night time pictures is that that deer lives within a mile to mile and a half of the camera. I don’t put any stock in expecting a mature deer sighting without daylight pictures of him in the area.

In the area you are in I would guess that you have a few things going against you.

1) it takes several years for aggressive tactics to really start working. There is so much subtlety to what works and what doesn’t, especially taking region/terrain/local herd differences into account, that it is nearly impossible to get it all down from paper and apply it effectively the first year.

2) I would be willing to bet that you are dealing with some fairly low deer densities in the big woods mountains.... if that is the case, it will drastically lengthen the time it takes to get it down simply because you have fewer encounters to learn from. Guys in the Midwest may easily have 3-4 times the density of mature deer to go after than you do. This means they are 3-4 times more likely to be successful. About half of the areas I hunt has extremely low deer numbers per square mile. (2.5-5 dpsm) low densities like that just mean encounters are few and far between, no matter how good you are.

3) Over availability of bedding locations. With the low densities, there is very little competition for good bedding. There are many more suitable locations for buck bedding than there are bucks. This means that you can be perfectly set up on a perfect buck bedding location, but nothing has bedded there in a week. It’s not like Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, etc... where limited bedding cover and high deer numbers mean SOMETHING will probably be in the good bedding areas on a daily basis.

I have moved away from die-hard beast bedding tactics in my area. (north Texas/ southern Oklahoma) Our densities just make it too ineffective during the main portion of the season. I shift back to it some any time I hunt late December/January because our bucks move back to a bed to feed pattern and are a little more predictable.

What gave me a crazy amount of success this year was scouting in season last year. I had to do it out of necessity, thanks to most of my areas being flooded.i spent the last week of October and the first two weeks of November on my feet on new properties trying to find replacement locations for the flooded ones. That put me bumping deer, and referencing fresh sign in the exact time of year I want to hunt. I got to ignore 80% of the sign because I knew it didn’t occur during the time period I get to hunt. I was covered up in encounters this year, got my first P&Y, and only hunted half the days I set aside for hunting... all because I was on my feet scouting last year during peak rut.

 

[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

How many hours do you think you logged this season in the woods? Sitting, walking, scouting, heading to set, all of it.

How many ‘shooters’ (your definition) have you seen while in the woods, sitting or walking or scouting?

I’m unsure of how many hours. But it’s been a lot. Prob a couple hundred. Seen one shooter.


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[DaveT1963]

Beast tactics work fine in specific environments as Ikeman said above. I would not rule out lower elevations closer to food sources. A term you will hear from a lot of wildlife managers/biologists is to NOT walk past the deer. everyone thinks you have to go to the most remote areas (which can be productive) and thus walk right past some great areas. Let fresh sign (poops and tracks this time of year) be you guide. And don't get down on yourself, outside having great ag fields, it can be really tricky to pin down the primary food destinations in late season. I know here locally locust pods are primary food as are some late red oaks - outside of that wheat fields are the primary draws right now.

 

[Rangermatthews]

Wow it sounds like you are definitely putting in the work and are doing what it takes to be successful. My belief is that no matter how difficult it is going we are always on the verge of greatness! I also hunt big woods and if you are getting away from the other hunters food sources seem to be more productive because I haven’t seen that bedding is that consistent. The big deer seem to make giant loops and food usually connects everything. During the rut find the does and in big woods I think scrapes are super important. Ive also found that low deer densities also usually make for a decent secondary rut. Good luck

 

[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

^^ good points.

The only thing I take from night time pictures is that that deer lives within a mile to mile and a half of the camera. I don’t put any stock in expecting a mature deer sighting without daylight pictures of him in the area.

In the area you are in I would guess that you have a few things going against you.

1) it takes several years for aggressive tactics to really start working. There is so much subtlety to what works and what doesn’t, especially taking region/terrain/local herd differences into account, that it is nearly impossible to get it all down from paper and apply it effectively the first year.

2) I would be willing to bet that you are dealing with some fairly low deer densities in the big woods mountains.... if that is the case, it will drastically lengthen the time it takes to get it down simply because you have fewer encounters to learn from. Guys in the Midwest may easily have 3-4 times the density of mature deer to go after than you do. This means they are 3-4 times more likely to be successful. About half of the areas I hunt has extremely low deer numbers per square mile. (2.5-5 dpsm) low densities like that just mean encounters are few and far between, no matter how good you are.

3) Over availability of bedding locations. With the low densities, there is very little competition for good bedding. There are many more suitable locations for buck bedding than there are bucks. This means that you can be perfectly set up on a perfect buck bedding location, but nothing has bedded there in a week. It’s not like Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, etc... where limited bedding cover and high deer numbers mean SOMETHING will probably be in the good bedding areas on a daily basis.

I have moved away from die-hard beast bedding tactics in my area. (north Texas/ southern Oklahoma) Our densities just make it too ineffective during the main portion of the season. I shift back to it some any time I hunt late December/January because our bucks move back to a bed to feed pattern and are a little more predictable.

What gave me a crazy amount of success this year was scouting in season last year. I had to do it out of necessity, thanks to most of my areas being flooded.i spent the last week of October and the first two weeks of November on my feet on new properties trying to find replacement locations for the flooded ones. That put me bumping deer, and referencing fresh sign in the exact time of year I want to hunt. I got to ignore 80% of the sign because I knew it didn’t occur during the time period I get to hunt. I was covered up in encounters this year, got my first P&Y, and only hunted half the days I set aside for hunting... all because I was on my feet scouting last year during peak rut.

Very sound advice. Certainly appreciated. Makes sense about what you’re saying about deer densities and how they have so many options for where they bed. I believe that more in season scouting would be beneficial. Not only for current hunting but for next season. I typically leave my trail cams set up over a food source(typically oaks) from early season until post season mainly to gather info for the following year. With that being said, if I scout now it will be with my gear on my back and my bow in hand so I can set up on the fresh sign when I find it.

Thanks again


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[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

Beast tactics work fine in specific environments as Ikeman said above. I would not rule out lower elevations closer to food sources. A term you will hear from a lot of wildlife managers/biologists is to NOT walk past the deer. everyone thinks you have to go to the most remote areas (which can be productive) and thus walk right past some great areas. Let fresh sign (poops and tracks this time of year) be you guide. And don't get down on yourself, outside having great ag fields, it can be really tricky to pin down the primary food destinations in late season. I know here locally locust pods are primary food as are some late red oaks - outside of that wheat fields are the primary draws right now.

Makes perfect sense. I will be in search of these food sources and the fresh sign. Thanks much


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[DannyAttacksTheMountain]

Wow it sounds like you are definitely putting in the work and are doing what it takes to be successful. My belief is that no matter how difficult it is going we are always on the verge of greatness! I also hunt big woods and if you are getting away from the other hunters food sources seem to be more productive because I haven’t seen that bedding is that consistent. The big deer seem to make giant loops and food usually connects everything. During the rut find the does and in big woods I think scrapes are super important. Ive also found that low deer densities also usually make for a decent secondary rut. Good luck

Thanks man! I will keep this in mind. It’s definitely taking a mental tole lol. I will be looking more at the food sources. I’ve also heard that if you can find thick bedding closer to food then you’ll prob be in a good spot


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[DaveT1963]

Makes perfect sense. I will be in search of these food sources and the fresh sign. Thanks much


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if I remember right from the Beast site you are in PA correct? If so, dude you have hard hunting all year and the vast majority struggle there on public land. Don't let what you see others do in other areas get you down. I quit looking for bucks beds because it is silly to do so down here. I went up to see Dan and my jaw dropped on how easy it was to find beds and hair - night and day difference. @IkemanTX can testify to that as we went together. Not trying to dissuade you to being aggressive- keep at it you will figure them out - just don't get too wrapped up in how others do things as it may or may not work where you are. It sounds to me like you are putting in the effort and time, probably just in a harder area. keep at it.

 

[DB4x4]

Here's an idea I haven't seen anybody suggest yet:

Everyone says key in on food sources, but nobody tells you how to figure out what they're specifically eating. If you have a tag for it, shoot a doe. After you gut her, cut her stomach open and see what's inside. That may clue you in on where the other deer feeding.

 

[IkemanTX]

Here's an idea I haven't seen anybody suggest yet:

Everyone says key in on food sources, but nobody tells you how to figure out what they're specifically eating. If you have a tag for it, shoot a doe. After you gut her, cut her stomach open and see what's inside. That may clue you in on where the other deer feeding.

I ALWAYS check the stomach contents of every deer I clean. It is by far the most direct evidence you can get to narrow down food source.

 

[KYHunter]

I may wrong but a facet of “Beast” hunting is hunting doe bedding. During the rut a buck will key on those bedding areas and (in my mind) is less likely to be using early or late season beds where you may have scouted him. Maybe find some doe bedding and hunt that for the rut?

I hunt Ag but also public land known as “LBL” here in Ky. It’s cool because when hunting private ag the deer density is ridiculous. Not uncommon to see 20-30 deer in a night. However, LBL is 170,000 acres of very steep hilled timber with only about 5% open fields. The deer density in LBL is super low and so finding deer in general is hard. I’ve had way more encounters with bucks by waiting and hunting doe bedding as opposed to keying in on buck bedding.

 

[Apex7]

Maybe that buck has you patterned.

 

[michigandrake]

How large are the bedding areas you are hunting and are you hunting any mornings?

 

[Kurt]

Hey all,

By all means this isn't a rant nor a tangent lol. Just trying to figure out what I am missing due to the fact that I have not been having any success with the "Beast Style Tactics" Or other tactics lol. I have been hunting nothing but known buck bedding areas since the beginning of the season, playing the wind/thermals, etc. I've been seeing deer but only one was a shooter yet I did not get the shot. I hunt primarily Appalachian mountain style terrain on public land(upper 1/3 of the mountain. I hike way in past where most hunters typically go while dropping milkweed on my way in. I do not believe that these areas are heavily pressured due to it taking me anywhere from two to four hours on foot to get to and I don't find any signs of human activity. I'm quiet as can be on my way in. I do not hunt the same spot more than four times a season and I give each spot at least a two to four weeks before going in again when conditions are right. I've scouted heavily in the off season and the sign looked great. I've found their antler sheds and have plenty of trail cam pics of giants. I just can not for the life of me get on the large deer. I'm seeing deer(young bucks and does). Just not the mature bucks I've been hoping for. At this point I am beat(mentally and physically(I know, no excuses) but it's beating me down as the season is near it's closing. I plan to keep at it and not give up. But I need to figure out why am I not successful? What do I need to do differently? Hoping you all could help.

With all of that being said....what am I missing? What am I not doing that other successful big buck killers are doing?

Thanks in advance,
Danny

Dude, it's only failure if you give up. And you did learn something, Beast tactics aren't working for you. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Utilize your skill and your knowledge, look at where you are and hunt it. Remember this too, the more you enjoy process the better the outcome. Now get out there and slay a giant, we're all counting on you...........jk

 

[Buckhole75]

Keep it simple brother.Find the food and Follow the Does.If you stay on the Does It is just a matter of time before the Bucks are hunting you.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I’m unsure of how many hours. But it’s been a lot. Prob a couple hundred. Seen one shooter.


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Do you ever pull an all day hunt? Mid day deer movement has been very productive for me.
If you are hunting only the last 3 hours, you may be missing some great action earlier in the day. A 3 hour sit is better than nothing but IMO, 3 hours misses a lot of activity.