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Rappelling Help

new to this and just testing it out - i mostly rappel when using spurs when lookin for new areas- dont like climbing down- but when testing 1 stick yesterday there was no need for a linemans belt assuming tree has no limbs which where we hunt theres plenty of pole pines everywhere and oaks with no limbs in creek bottoms and my current tether wasnt long enough so that was 14 feet of rope right there gone and my rappel rope is only 35 so and it bundles up ok. again this is all testing , my go to is 3 sticks and pre prepped trees - just nice to have a lighter weight to scout with. extra 21 feet of rope is way lighter and bulkier that 2 more sticks. spurs is the way to go when climbing but to me with alot of cloths on they are hard to get back on (freaking grey hairs)
 
I cheat a little as I climb connected,hunt connected and then rappell out using an ISC D-4 descender. I climb on an arborist line or for my rappell line a 10.5 static which I can ascend also (RADS).
 
bowhuntr09 said:
I would think the Safeguard as primary and the ATC and autoblock as backup since its cheap and small. Static rope of your choice between 9mm and 11mm. I have Sterling HTP 9mm and Samson Predator.
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Thanks for the information. Would I really need a backup device for the Safeguard if I could just climb down with my climbing method of choice and moving the tether/rope down as I go?
 
I appreciate all the feedback. I really appreciate the pictures as it is hard to visualize some of these things. I hope my questions don't sound too stupid, I am just learning. I rappelled once in the military using a hand tied swiss seat and I believe a figure 8 but that was a LONG time ago.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
He says he has a safeguard... why not just use it. Can the safeguard not be dual purpose and replace the ropeman 1 on a tree tether? And as you repel it will hold you as you pick gear off the tree. Is my thinking wrong?

Are there advantages to the auto block over the safeguard. I am thinking of one stick and repelling next year too.

Another question. How often do you have to climb back up the tree to retrieve a rope that will not come down?
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I had 70 plus sits this year and rappelled after each one. I never had to go back up after the rope once. There were a couple of times I came close to having to but I was always able to finagle it loose from the ground.

Every difficult time came when I was routed over a branch. If I didn't pay attention when retrieving the carabiner I used for my girth hitch it could just slightly hang on the back of branch enough to make it difficult to pull straight down. By walking away from the tree with the rope I was able change the angle of pull enough to free it up every time.

In one instance I was routed over a branch , rappelled down in the dark and I forgot to remove my Safeguard from the rope before I tried extracting the rope. When I pulled my pull down string it pulled the tag end of the rope went up as I expected but it hung up when the Safeguard hit the girth hitch. I couldn't figure out was going on in the dark until I dug out my headlamp and shined it up the tree. One of those moments you mutter "dumb@$$" to yourself. Luckily I was still able to jump up and grab the tag end and pull it back down to get the Safeguard off. Then it just pulled down as expected.
 
@Cgw05 I'm using the same rope as you to rappel and I keep the rope in an old fanny pack I had laying around. I had the same idea to keep it in the pack and just let it deploy as I rappel down. Do you have any pictures of your stuff sack and the way you have the rope stored in it so it will deploy smoothly? A few tests in the back yard and the rope seemed to twist and hang up in the pack. I'm using an ATC with an autoblock for my rappel system. This is all new to me and trying to work out all the kinks.
 
Gumbymedic said:
Thanks for the information. Would I really need a backup device for the Safeguard if I could just climb down with my climbing method of choice and moving the tether/rope down as I go?
Click to expand...

Certainly not, but its light and only costs ~$30 if that.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
I had 70 plus sits this year and rappelled after each one. I never had to go back up after the rope once. There were a couple of times I came close to having to but I was always able to finagle it loose from the ground.

Every difficult time came when I was routed over a branch. If I didn't pay attention when retrieving the carabiner I used for my girth hitch it could just slightly hang on the back of branch enough to make it difficult to pull straight down. By walking away from the tree with the rope I was able change the angle of pull enough to free it up every time.

In one instance I was routed over a branch , rappelled down in the dark and I forgot to remove my Safeguard from the rope before I tried extracting the rope. When I pulled my pull down string it pulled the tag end of the rope went up as I expected but it hung up when the Safeguard hit the girth hitch. I couldn't figure out was going on in the dark until I dug out my headlamp and shined it up the tree. One of those moments you mutter "dumb@$$" to yourself. Luckily I was still able to jump up and grab the tag end and pull it back down to get the Safeguard off. Then it just pulled down as expected.
Click to expand...

I had two questions I forgot to ask you when we last spoke.
Do you back-up your Safeguard with any other device?
(My thoughts would be that if something happened to the Safeguard, I could just climb down using my tether/linesman rope and my stick or aider.)

What do you do with your hanging rope once you're at hunting height?

Thanks for all your help!
 
MTS9321 said:
@Cgw05 I'm using the same rope as you to rappel and I keep the rope in an old fanny pack I had laying around. I had the same idea to keep it in the pack and just let it deploy as I rappel down. Do you have any pictures of your stuff sack and the way you have the rope stored in it so it will deploy smoothly? A few tests in the back yard and the rope seemed to twist and hang up in the pack. I'm using an ATC with an autoblock for my rappel system. This is all new to me and trying to work out all the kinks.
Click to expand...

I had the same experience when I played with using a stuff sack. Rope got all twisted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Gumbymedic said:
I had two questions I forgot to ask you when we last spoke.
Do you back-up your Safeguard with any other device?
(My thoughts would be that if something happened to the Safeguard, I could just climb down using my tether/linesman rope and my stick or aider.)

What do you do with your hanging rope once you're at hunting height?

Thanks for all your help!
Click to expand...
I carry an ATC Sport with a prussic and an extra carabiner to rappel on if I happen to drop my Safeguard. I could always reverse the one stick process back down teh tre and have practiced it just for that purpose but I really don't like it, its much easier to rappel. When I'm hanging on the Safeguard I always tie off a slip knot as suggested by Petzel for the Grigri and route the loop back into my bridge carabiner. That assures I can't slip if the Safeguard were to uncam. I then route the tag end under my pack so it hangs right along the tree trunk. That keeps it out of my way and keeps it still at ground level.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
I carry an ATC Sport with a prussic and an extra carabiner to rappel on if I happen to drop my Safeguard. I could always reverse the one stick process back down teh tre and have practiced it just for that purpose but I really don't like it, its much easier to rappel. When I'm hanging on the Safeguard I always tie off a slip knot as suggested by Petzel for the Grigri and route the loop back into my bridge carabiner. That assures I can't slip if the Safeguard were to uncam. I then route the tag end under my pack so it hangs right along the tree trunk. That keeps it out of my way and keeps it still at ground level.
Click to expand...
How do you read/interpret the lifeguard "don't tie any knots" instruction/warning?
 
MTS9321 said:
@Cgw05 I'm using the same rope as you to rappel and I keep the rope in an old fanny pack I had laying around. I had the same idea to keep it in the pack and just let it deploy as I rappel down. Do you have any pictures of your stuff sack and the way you have the rope stored in it so it will deploy smoothly? A few tests in the back yard and the rope seemed to twist and hang up in the pack. I'm using an ATC with an autoblock for my rappel system. This is all new to me and trying to work out all the kinks.
Click to expand...

I’m using the large aero hunter bag on my right side for my rappelling rope, grigri, retrieval line and associated hardware. Bag on the left is the small bag from aero hunter where I keep my flip line and bridge. As far as storing the rope just stuff it in the bag don’t try to neatly coil it. I use rope at work quite a bit and we store rope in lengths from 25’ to 600’ this way. It takes up a little more room but deploys a lot better. I don’t think you can take all the coil out but this is the best we’ve found so far. 8F140904-EE11-467F-82DA-E1CDE606BFD4.jpeg
 
Learn the munter hitch for a backup. If you are rapping in the dark the munter hitch might not be a good choice unless you've developed muscle memory tying it. You don't want to mess this up. There are so many belay devices used for rappelling. Pick one and practice with it. I also always use an autoblock, unless the device has an auto braking feature. Check the site below. It's a great compilation of devices and you can filter by feature.

https://weighmyrack.com/belay
 
EricS said:
I think rappelling is the fastest way down. It can be an extremely safe way down. When I look at that bulky pile of rope I have to ask myself why would I one stick and carry that pile of rope instead of just carrying two more sticks. You’re not adding that much bulk once you have one stick to carry vs three. If you are using srt to climb rappelling down is a no brainer. If I’m using spurs maybe but It’s not that hard to put them back on vs managing that pile of rope.
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A 9mm rope of say 30 or 40 ft length is not that bulky. Even more so if you can use as your tether + lineman which would be not that much less anyway. And rope packs down well. Sticks for either case would likely be cut down significantly with aider, and your comfort level with aiders probably comes in to play. Whether comfortable with movable aider, single step, 5 step etc. With just lineman belt vs full tether.
 
I really need to learn this. I hear there will be an SRT guy at Mass-a-saddle-paluzza, can't wait to try it out.
 
mattsteg said:
How do you read/interpret the lifeguard "don't tie any knots" instruction/warning?
Click to expand...
I looked briefly at lunch for my Madrock product guide but didn't locate it (I think I found the guide for every other piece of climbing equipment I own though):). To be honest I don't remember the "no knots" guidance or how it applied.

The knot I'm using is the one recommended by Petzel for use on the Grigri, essentially the same device as a Lifeguard. The only difference is that instead of using a second carabiner I just put the loop thru the bridge carabiner. This creates a good stopper knot. To be honest I'm not worried about the knot as much as I am about inadvertently releasing tension on the Safeguard and having an uncommanded uncam.


1550259581754.png
 
I think with a lifeguard you need to back it up but with a safeguard that is not necessary since it will act like a ropeman 1 ascender correct???
 
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