• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Saddle legality.

EricS

EricS

Well-Known Member
Vendor Rep
SH Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
5,464
Location
Georgia
I’ve seen some talk about saddles not being legal and responded to it before I realized it was in the classifieds. Decided to start a thread here so @sureshotscott doesn’t ban me. So the backstory is we have a member asking out his saddle gear because saddles are not legal on public land in Alabama. These situations are where I would like to see our industry leaders step up and work together. @Gibbon @Erniepower @g2outdoors If someone would tag Andrew from wild edge and out on a limb. I don’t know those two user names anymore. It would be nice to see the leaders in saddle gear manufacturing step up and work together on ignorant rules that prevent the safest way to sit in a tree from being used under the guise of safety. Maybe work together proactively with state hunting rights groups or a larger organization like the BHA. We don’t need TMA but we do need a voice. There’s no better way to say thank you to your customers.
 
Reach out to conversvation groups like BHA, QDMA, etc. to also pressure DNR/wildlife agencies to overhaul outmoded or in some cases outright ridiculous rules and game laws.
 
If I remember correctly @bowhunter15 had a similar rule problem with a hunt a couple years ago. So it’s not just an Alabama problem.Im curious as to other known states or locations where laws prevent saddle hunting.
 
And much like @ImThere I would say I’m not hunting from a tree stand therefore not required to wear a full body harness. Someone mentioned a platform could be considered a treestand but not so much a ring of steps. Picture taken from Alabama refs.
665E6AB3-7118-47BE-B75A-C29A56C16E55.jpeg
 
EricS said:
If I remember correctly @bowhunter15 had a similar rule problem with a hunt a couple years ago. So it’s not just an Alabama problem.Im curious as to other known states or locations where laws prevent saddle hunting.
Click to expand...
They had required a 5 point TMA harness for the metro hunts in the Twin Cities. Ernie led a demo over the summer, and they decided to allow it in controlled areas as a trial. Hopefully they made a good impact and they continue to expand it next year there.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
If that’s pulled from Alabama regs, I’d say it implies saddles aren’t NOT legal. It only mentions treestands. We could get real technical or only a little technical, but suspenders should keep you in the clear there one way or another. I’m sure people in AL hunted with saddles when the Assassin or TL came out. We have a ton of dudes from AL on here who I’m SURE use saddles on both public and private. I think it’s unreasonable to “make” people wear safety harnesses as it is. You can’t make people wear seatbelts, legal or illegal, if they’re an adult and they don’t want to. That’s not called personal freedom IMO. Likewise, requiring someone to use equipment that the saddle guys feel is not as safe (treestand harness) just because it’s widely accepted as best practice, is like requiring someone to eat vegetables just because you feel it’s best, under penalty of law. Do they make arborists wear FAS harnesses? They probably don’t even check those guys, who have been using saddles at high elevations for decades. Are they going to rescind record-book deer that were killed from unharnessed treestand hunters 15 years ago, or accept some doofus’s homemade treestand harness just because it’s a 5-point, or check his ropes and carabiners for proper loading and fraying before and during each hunt? Check his aim with his bow, or resharpen his broadheads before he hits the woods? Help him drag a deer out and gut it properly, or make sure he gets help when his truck is stuck in mud at the WMA parking lot? It’s ridiculous. It’s also unconstitutional to infringe on someone’s right to wear whatever the **** they want or to take their own well-being into their own hands.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
If that’s pulled from Alabama regs, I’d say it implies saddles aren’t NOT legal. It only mentions treestands. We could get real technical or only a little technical, but suspenders should keep you in the clear there one way or another. I’m sure people in AL hunted with saddles when the Assassin or TL came out. We have a ton of dudes from AL on here who I’m SURE use saddles on both public and private. I think it’s unreasonable to “make” people wear safety harnesses as it is. You can’t make people wear seatbelts, legal or illegal, if they’re an adult and they don’t want to. That’s not called personal freedom IMO. Likewise, requiring someone to use equipment that the saddle guys feel is not as safe (treestand harness) just because it’s widely accepted as best practice, is like requiring someone to eat vegetables just because you feel it’s best, under penalty of law. Do they make arborists wear FAS harnesses? They probably don’t even check those guys, who have been using saddles at high elevations for decades. Are they going to rescind record-book deer that were killed from unharnessed treestand hunters 15 years ago, or accept some doofus’s homemade treestand harness just because it’s a 5-point, or check his ropes and carabiners for proper loading and fraying before and during each hunt? Check his aim with his bow, or resharpen his broadheads before he hits the woods? Help him drag a deer out and gut it properly, or make sure he gets help when his truck is stuck in mud at the WMA parking lot? It’s ridiculous. It’s also unconstitutional to infringe on someone’s right to wear whatever the **** they want or to take their own well-being into their own hands.
Click to expand...
You can pry my saddle off my cold dead buttocks
 
Just don’t raise attention to it and continue hunting with the saddle. If you are questioned. Put it on and hang upside down from the tree. If they still write you a ticket, they were gonna find something to write you a ticket for anyway.
If attention is drawn, they will require saddles to be made with shoulder straps and be TMA approved. Saddle prices will go up even more and we will be stuck wearing saddles with shoulder straps. Then decide to cut them off and be back to square one but with a more expensive saddle.
 
bowhunter15 said:
They had required a 5 point TMA harness for the metro hunts in the Twin Cities. Ernie led a demo over the summer, and they decided to allow it in controlled areas as a trial. Hopefully they made a good impact and they continue to expand it next year there.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
That’s great news.
 
I hate you guys! lol. I've been staying out of this one, but since everybody and their cousin is @ing me...

"To hunt from an elevated stand or platform without attaching
themselves to the tree or platform with a full body safety harness"

Is how the wording reads on the WMA maps. I've seen it written differently somewhere else, where it basically says you have to be attached to the tree during ascent and descent, as well as while at height. Alabama DCNR isn't always crystal-clear on regs. So there's that.

I personally think the law is up to interpretation. Is a ROS a platform? But I'm not the guy writing tickets.

Here's my thoughts. My understanding is that the law was written due to TMA initiative. Mississippi was the first state to have a harness law, to my knowledge. TMA is based out of Mississippi. The rule spread to Alabama for obvious geographic reasons. At the time it was written, it was not a bad reg. It specifies full-body because the waist harnesses that used to be sold with some stands were a death trap, and TMA was very outspoken about their shortcomings.

The state of Alabama doesn't give a dusty fart about my safety. It's concerned with liability. Since all TMA and to my knowledge ANSI standards dictate a full body harness, it gives them good legal protection if you fall on state lands. They can't specifically say it has to be a TMA harness, but they can get around it by saying full body.

From conversations I've had with TMA, I think we'll eventually see TMA or maybe ANSI standards for saddles. I think until that happens, it would be unlikely to see saddles made officially legal to use on state lands. Again, I dount it's about safety as much as it's about liability. All state organizations are concerned with money and survival.

I could be wrong. I know several guys who could help Alabama saddle hunters get their voices heard. The thing is, right now there's a grey area. If you put the issue in the limelight, you either definitively win or definitively lose.

I would be willing to talk with the folks I know if ALABAMA HUNTERS want the law looked at. No offense, but I don't care what any manufacturer or out of state hunter thinks about our regs. I'm also generally against the amendment of or passage of new regulations. My personal preference would be to throw the whole rule out altogether, which is never going to happen.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents on that. It's hard to have this conversation without getting political, and that's taboo here. If somebody wants to talk about it, PM me or join the Alabama Saddle Hunters Facebook page. Issues like this are part of the reason I started that little group.
 
Are we all assuming saddles are not legal because of the statement that "full body harnesses are required while hunting from a tree stand" or were saddles specifically mentioned? The reason I say this is from their statement "falling is the leading cause of injuries...injuries could be minimized or prevented by wearing a full body harness..." one would have to assume that these injuries occurred because the individuals were not wearing any form of fall protection/prevention and if that is indeed the case then those using saddles should be exempt due to the fact that a fall prevention system is in place.
 
I seriously doubt it would stand up in court that a saddle is not a full body fall restraint device - long history of use in the arborist community. probably some liber whacko interpretation of the law. And I would like to see someone explain how it is not a full body harness - does your head or a limb detach and hit the ground - it either prevents a fall or it does not.

I could see a sharp defense attorney asking the prosecutor to please stand up and "demonstrate how a saddle would not protect a whole body. Specifically, please demonstrate how it is a partial body fall restraint system." What a crock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top