Screamer in a bridge?

[philsanchez76]

Can I get a cliffs notes version of this thread? Jk appreciate all the thoughts fellas.

 

[CooterBrown]

Do you also have a belay guy who jumps when you fall to help reduce the force? Are you using that many feet of dynamic climbing rope? Lol if no, that should be your answer

In the video the guy jumps with 1 foot of rope and sees some threads busted but then uses the same screamer and puts 2 feet of rope slack and the belay guy says I wont flinch this time and he jumps again with 4 feet of free fall (they said). If it was true that putting weight on a screamer makes it useless than why didn't the guy have to be taken to the emergency room after a 4 foot free fall? It seams to me that it worked pretty good the second go around after taking a fall once so if that's the case than surely my 180lbs(gear included) shouldn't hurt a screamer. Especially when it would only see weight 3 or 4 times for 30 to 40 second per time per hunt.( each transition to move the stick up 3x30=90sec/4x40=160 seconds) per hunt. I wouldn't see the benefit of using the screamer during the whole hunt because once your tethered in to hunt your tether should never see more slack than 1 to 2 inches for adjustments reasons.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

In the video the guy jumps with 1 foot of rope and sees some threads busted but then uses the same screamer and puts 2 feet of rope slack and the belay guy says I wont flinch this time and he jumps again with 4 feet of free fall (they said). If it was true that putting weight on a screamer makes it useless than why didn't the guy have to be taken to the emergency room after a 4 foot free fall? It seams to me that it worked pretty good the second go around after taking a fall once so if that's the case than surely my 180lbs(gear included) shouldn't hurt a screamer. Especially when it would only see weight 3 or 4 times for 30 to 40 second per time per hunt.( each transition to move the stick up 3x30=90sec/4x40=160 seconds) per hunt. I wouldn't see the benefit of using the screamer during the whole hunt because once your tethered in to hunt your tether should never see more slack than 1 to 2 inches for adjustments reasons.

Dude these are two entirely different applications and uses of a screamer. We tend to use short ropes (normally static) and some are using the screamer as their primary lanyard. I never once said it wouldn’t work at all. I never said that. I don’t know why this keeps gettting insinuated? In that video (again entirely different applications and materials.) for the record the guy at the bottom admitted to jumping (that’s the job of the belay man) They are using long dynamic rope as the primary tie in. The screamer was attached to an anchor point above the climbing line. It was not permanently weighted for hours on end. The guys were also anticipating the fall. It was also not the primary lanyard used to catch that climber (because the dynamic rope was also absorbing force as the screamer broke away. How many times do you think that same climber has made that same fall without a screamer on long distances of dynamic rope? If you use it between your mechanical and your bridge, it is constantly weighted. It is also going to provide 90% of the arrest in that configuration. If you carefully watch that video, in the first video he didn’t have the proclaimed 1’ of slack for the fall because the guy below pulled the slack out (which lead to the I won’t flinch next time) so the screamer engaged early. He was also below his anchor point so his fall factor was not high. If you’re one sticking, you have potential for a higher fall factor. I never said it would automatically be useless as someone else said. I said after enough degradation it would either just break or the amount of force it absorbed would be offset by the secondary dynamic event. The only time I said something would be basically useless was if you used it as your bridge. All this other was geared towards why using it as your lanyard was also a potential bad idea. Some of you weigh 145 lbs and will never suffer a fall of more than a couple inches. I applaud those people. Some of us weigh 100 + pounds north of that and a fall of a few inches could break the first row. Ok I have explained my position in full detail multiple times. Some of you have rock climbed or have been to certified climbing schools and my hope is you understand what I am trying to say even if you disagree. Some of you will read this and not understand the difference between primary connections and secondary connections, I don’t care if you agree with me either, my hope is maybe you’ll research this topic though. That way before you do what you read on a forum, you at least have enough info provided to make an informed decision. That is all.

 

[CooterBrown]

So in your opinion using a screamer between my bridge and my safeguard only while one sticking and then removing it during the hunt is a waste?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

In the video the guy jumps with 1 foot of rope and sees some threads busted but then uses the same screamer and puts 2 feet of rope slack and the belay guy says I wont flinch this time and he jumps again with 4 feet of free fall (they said). If it was true that putting weight on a screamer makes it useless than why didn't the guy have to be taken to the emergency room after a 4 foot free fall? It seams to me that it worked pretty good the second go around after taking a fall once so if that's the case than surely my 180lbs(gear included) shouldn't hurt a screamer. Especially when it would only see weight 3 or 4 times for 30 to 40 second per time per hunt.( each transition to move the stick up 3x30=90sec/4x40=160 seconds) per hunt. I wouldn't see the benefit of using the screamer during the whole hunt because once your tethered in to hunt your tether should never see more slack than 1 to 2 inches for adjustments reasons.

And for the record he didn’t have to go straight to the ER because he was on a dynamic line, had a belay man at ground level and used a screamer to assist with the shock absorption, all while on a low fall factor. I dare say he didn’t get any where near 1800 lbs of force and probably less than 900lbs (when most falls actually start to hurt) due to this configuration.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So in your opinion using a screamer between my bridge and my safeguard only while one sticking and then removing it during the hunt is a waste?

In my opinion it would not prevent you from being injured if a that sort of a fall occurred. Again that is my opinion. It’s ultimately you that decides what you feel is safe or is a waste or not. Also what type of rope are you using? Is it rescue tech, canyon, oplux? All of those are static in nature. You’d get more protection from using a dynamic rope than using a screamer alone as your primary lanyard. Or use the screamer on a separate prusik attached slightly above your mechanical so that it engages in a fall but is not your primary connection point. Again this is my opinion on what would make it safer. Still it’s not a better solution than not having slack in your system. But that’s not what this thread was for…. Lol

 

[CooterBrown]

And for the record he didn’t have to go straight to the ER because he was on a dynamic line, had a belay man at ground level and used a screamer to assist with the shock absorption, all while on a low fall factor. I dare say he didn’t get any where near 1800 lbs of force and probably less than 900lbs (when most falls actually start to hurt) due to this configuration.

My point was he took what he called a 4 foot fall on short dynamic rope with a once used(threads busted) screamer with no affect on him whatsoever. Than perhaps me taking a 4 foot fall with a slightly used (a hour maybe the whole season of actual load time) with no threads busted screamer hooked to a safeguard(that will slip some also) has got to have a lot of benefits for my health

 

[CooterBrown]

In my opinion it would not prevent you from being injured if a that sort of a fall occurred. Again that is my opinion. It’s ultimately you that decides what you feel is safe or is a waste or not. Also what type of rope are you using? Is it rescue tech, canyon, oplux? All of those are static in nature. You’d get more protection from using a dynamic rope than using a screamer alone as your primary lanyard. Or use the screamer on a separate prusik attached slightly above your mechanical so that it engages in a fall but is not your primary connection point. Again this is my opinion on what would make it safer. Still it’s not a better solution than not having slack in your system. But that’s not what this thread was for…. Lol

Lets just say an out of spec static rope. I dont understand your separate prusik concept. If it was above my mechanical and had to come into factor for a fall wouldn't my main line have to break between my mechanical and the prusik? Thus putting a lot of force on my body to be enough to break my main line.

 

[_Dario]

I don’t think it’s apples to apples. And maybe it is apples to apples but you could only prove that with a test. So one’s opinion on it really doesn’t matter, only the test results.

But there are also things you can do to make yourself feel safer and more confident in your climbing without seeing test results.

But those things could have actually zero value in reality and still kill you in the end. And actually even be more harmful really because they are instilling a false sense of security making you take risks you wouldn’t otherwise have taken.

This is fun isn’t it?

that’s why the cheapest most effective way to stay safe is through procedure and calculated movements.

 

[CooterBrown]

In my opinion it would not prevent you from being injured if a that sort of a fall occurred. Again that is my opinion. It’s ultimately you that decides what you feel is safe or is a waste or not. Also what type of rope are you using? Is it rescue tech, canyon, oplux? All of those are static in nature. You’d get more protection from using a dynamic rope than using a screamer alone as your primary lanyard. Or use the screamer on a separate prusik attached slightly above your mechanical so that it engages in a fall but is not your primary connection point. Again this is my opinion on what would make it safer. Still it’s not a better solution than not having slack in your system. But that’s not what this thread was for…. Lol

So falling on say 3 foot of dynamic rope (the length around the tree to my safeguard) would have less shock than falling on a screamer?

 

[Marmuzz]

I think that depends on the specific rope.

 

[Marmuzz]

Not trying to be elusive or difficult in that reply. But my understanding is whereas most of the static lines we see mentioned around here have a lot of relative commonality between each other, dynamic lines can vary quite a bit in elongation abilities depending on their intended use. (More informed persons can correct me if I’m wrong there.)

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So falling on say 3 foot of dynamic rope (the length around the tree to my safeguard) would have less shock than falling on a screamer?

You’re still missing the secondary vs primary connection point. I am not saying a screamer won’t work. I am saying that it is not going to do for you what it did for the guy in that video. He didn’t have a short piece of climbing line. He had like 20’ of climbing line available for stretch

His climbing line was ran through an anchor as well. I guess he did use the screamer as a weighted connection but that was only for the anchor and if it stretched or failed the dynamic line was also absorbing force He loaded the screamer completely and first thing he said was I can already feel it working. At the beginning of his climb up the wall the man even states we are using dynamic rope so that he doesn’t hurt his back. And the guy belayed with the as the screamer broke away.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Not trying to be elusive or difficult in that reply. But my understanding is whereas most of the static lines we see mentioned around here have a lot of relative commonality between each other, dynamic lines can vary quite a bit in elongation abilities depending on their intended use. (More informed persons can correct me if I’m wrong there.)

I feel as you are correct. They all have a minimum standard to meet but some well exceed those standards and some barely meet them. However static ropes also have a standard to meet. They have much less wiggle room for elongation though. Elongation is what helps a rope absorb force.

 

[CooterBrown]

I dont know ropes very well especially dynamic ropes. Is there a rope out there that will reduce the forces by 2kn ( I think this is what the screamer I have claims) in only like 3 feet of it?

 

[_Dario]

Lol

 

[_Dario]

Something with the lowest impact force rating you could find of all climbing ropes available? (7.3kn). 38% dynamic elongation and 9.7% static elongation. I heard there’s a rope out there but it’s discontinued.

 

[_Dario]

All joking aside those stats still don’t mean much without putting through testing

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I dont know ropes very well especially dynamic ropes. Is there a rope out there that will reduce the forces by 2kn ( I think this is what the screamer I have claims) in only like 3 feet of it?

I will do some investigating and get back to you on that… just keep in mind that 2kn reduction could be mitigated if it tears completely away and you have nothing else there absorbing the force. I think that’s what I should have been saying all along… if this is the only “shock absorption” you have in your fall system, and it pops every stitch then those forces will be lessened because it will have ripped all the way open and there is nothing else helping absorb the fall. But as far as ropes, I will definitely do some research and get back to you if I can find any relevant information

 

[CooterBrown]

I will do some investigating and get back to you on that… just keep in mind that 2kn reduction could be mitigated if it tears completely away and you have nothing else there absorbing the force. I think that’s what I should have been saying all along… if this is the only “shock absorption” you have in your fall system, and it pops every stitch then those forces will be lessened because it will have ripped all the way open and there is nothing else helping absorb the fall. But as far as ropes, I will definitely do some research and get back to you if I can find any relevant information

Thanks. Do you know how much force would be generated with 180 lbs at say 3 foot free fall on static rope