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Slow-mo Arrow Tuning

My longbow is cut to center, so with my Velcro I’m about .060-.125” off center.

In general I would agree, but something isn’t right here and you can’t ignore static spine because it is a variable in what your dynamic spine will be. I currently don’t have a good explanation for why a 300 spine with a 100 gr tip is what is flying straight. that’s what I need help figuring out. I shouldn’t need to shoot 250 spine in traditional bow to shoot 200-250 grains up front, that is just insane. Something else has to be up. Most likely my release or something.

I know I could bump up my brace height and shoot more weight upfront, but that would just be because the bow would be going slower.

More to follow…
Maybe try taking the velcro off the window so the arrow is at center and see what happens. I hot 400 spine carbons with 150 up front out of the recurve I built. It was 50#. You are a drawing a half inch more with 8# more draw weight. I could easily see needing to go to a 250 to handle 200-250 up front. You might have to leave them full length or close to it though.
 
My guess is that the 29 to 29.5 inch draw is making the shafts weak. A center shot bow is not going to make much if any good use of paradox, meaning you can't use paradox to your advantage to load the front and keep a weak spine. For instance, my longbow is far from center shot and I can use a 500 spine arrow with 400 grains up front on a 28 inch arrow and get over 30% FOC.
 
Maybe try taking the velcro off the window so the arrow is at center and see what happens. I hot 400 spine carbons with 150 up front out of the recurve I built. It was 50#. You are a drawing a half inch more with 8# more draw weight. I could easily see needing to go to a 250 to handle 200-250 up front. You might have to leave them full length or close to it though.
I just haven’t heard of any trad guys shooting that stiff of a spine, also the 3Rivers dynamic spine calculator had my bow at like 60s and my arrow w/ 100 gr at like 115-120, which is no where remotely close. I feel like their calculator is usually pretty close to accurate in my experience.
 
My guess is that the 29 to 29.5 inch draw is making the shafts weak. A center shot bow is not going to make much if any good use of paradox, meaning you can't use paradox to your advantage to load the front and keep a weak spine. For instance, my longbow is far from center shot and I can use a 500 spine arrow with 400 grains up front on a 28 inch arrow and get over 30% FOC.
I can try bumping out my rest but I thought it would have an adverse affect but maybe I have it backwards. Bumping out rest means you’d need a weaker spine right? My arrows are currently telling me that I’m already on the edge of underspined. So maybe bumping it out just a little and adding a couple twist to my string will get my back in the range of some tip weight?
 
I just haven’t heard of any trad guys shooting that stiff of a spine, also the 3Rivers dynamic spine calculator had my bow at like 60s and my arrow w/ 100 gr at like 115-120, which is no where remotely close. I feel like their calculator is usually pretty close to accurate in my experience.
Here is a little experiment. Load the front to where you want to be and then build your shelf out a little and see if it works. Then you can take advantage of paradox. A trad bow with center shot will behave more like a compound that is center shot. The arrow doesn't know what is launching it.
 
I just haven’t heard of any trad guys shooting that stiff of a spine, also the 3Rivers dynamic spine calculator had my bow at like 60s and my arrow w/ 100 gr at like 115-120, which is no where remotely close. I feel like their calculator is usually pretty close to accurate in my experience.
Some times the calculators are really close and sometimes they arent. The bow and arrow combo doesnt lie. Brace height and strike plate is about all you can do with the bow tuning wise. The rest of the tune is going to come from the arrow setup and the arrow flight will tell you when it's right. I dont give two flips what the charts or calculators say or what set up works for someone else or why, I just have to figure out what flys right out of my bow. Sometimes we have to stop thinking about what we think should be right and just listen to the bow and arrow.
 
I can try bumping out my rest but I thought it would have an adverse affect but maybe I have it backwards. Bumping out rest means you’d need a weaker spine right? My arrows are currently telling me that I’m already on the edge of underspined. So maybe bumping it out just a little and adding a couple twist to my string will get my back in the range of some tip weight?
Yes and that is why I suggested taking the velcro off the window. Should give or show you a truer representation of where you are spine wise if you are shooting from center. I would prolly screw on a 200 grain point too and see what it shows.
 
It may sound like @NMSbowhunter and I are saying different things but we're really not, just working the issue from a different perspective.
Agreed. grc0003, what was the setup that was previously working for you? If you are happy with that arrow/broadhead configuration and all that has happened is that you have increased draw length, all you may need to do is bump up spine just a little.

Also, if you have been fighting this for a while this morning and you are aggravated and your head is spinning with different ideas, my advice is take a break, forget it for a while and revisit when you are fresh.
 
Agreed. grc0003, what was the setup that was previously working for you? If you are happy with that arrow/broadhead configuration and all that has happened is that you have increased draw length, all you may need to do is bump up spine just a little.

Also, if you have been fighting this for a while this morning and you are aggravated and your head is spinning with different ideas, my advice is take a break, forget it for a while and revisit when you are fresh.
What I thought was flying well last season was actually kicking left. Due to me being a left handed shooter it was difficult for me to pick up because the bow blocks that first 5 yards where it is really kicking before it straightens up. On top of that my form was so off I was collapsing and though I was drawing 28-29” it was probably like I was drawing 27” which just further complicated things. Now I’m using my back and expanding through the shot and you can really tell the difference in speed at 29”+ or so with a cleaner release.

I was fighting it the other day but yesterday I leaned into it and simply recorded the flights with weights 100-400gr and let the data do the talking. So I’m not frustrated as much other than confused. I may try to drastically bump out my rest and see what that does. There’s basically nothing on the shelf with the Velcro being worn down and I know how that flies.

I might get the Mrs to get close up video of the arrow coming off the bow too. It may give
 
Here is a little experiment. Load the front to where you want to be and then build your shelf out a little and see if it works. Then you can take advantage of paradox. A trad bow with center shot will behave more like a compound that is center shot. The arrow doesn't know what is launching it.
That’s exactly what I was thinking about doing next. And a center cut bow still paradox’s, it’s the past center bows that give you perfectly straight alignment and don’t paradox much. My arrow points to the right a couple degrees.
 
What I thought was flying well last season was actually kicking left. Due to me being a left handed shooter it was difficult for me to pick up because the bow blocks that first 5 yards where it is really kicking before it straightens up. On top of that my form was so off I was collapsing and though I was drawing 28-29” it was probably like I was drawing 27” which just further complicated things. Now I’m using my back and expanding through the shot and you can really tell the difference in speed at 29”+ or so with a cleaner release.

I was fighting it the other day but yesterday I leaned into it and simply recorded the flights with weights 100-400gr and let the data do the talking. So I’m not frustrated as much other than confused. I may try to drastically bump out my rest and see what that does. There’s basically nothing on the shelf with the Velcro being worn down and I know how that flies.

I might get the Mrs to get close up video of the arrow coming off the bow too. It may give
If you can get her to stand on a step ladder high enough to video in slo-mo from above and behind you in exact alignment with the arrow and target would be great. It will show you exactly what is happening. At least that's the best I know besides a high speed camera but who has one of those laying around??
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding. The 100 gr up front flys straight but when you add weight up front the back of the arrow kicks to the left? Left is stiff for a left handed shooter. Adding more tip weight should have the opposite effect.
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding. The 100 gr up front flys straight but when you add weight up front the back of the arrow kicks to the left? Left is stiff for a left handed shooter. Adding more tip weight should have the opposite effect.
Well that’s part of what’s got me confused as well.

I did shoot 340 spine and 400 spine as well with 250-400 grains and it was kicking even harder to the left than the 300 spine which I would expect.

More experimentation to come. All the ideas are greatly appreciated.
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding. The 100 gr up front flys straight but when you add weight up front the back of the arrow kicks to the left? Left is stiff for a left handed shooter. Adding more tip weight should have the opposite effect.
Left is underspined for a left handed shooter is it not?

When I add weight it increased the amount left it kicked. That makes sense to me as adding weight would further decrease spine?
 
Left is underspined for a left handed shooter is it not?

I’ve never been a left handed shooter but if your talking about the direction the rear of the arrow (fletching) is kicking then a right handed shooter the rear of the arrow “kicks” left and impacts right of target when it is weak. A left handed would be the opposite. Maybe we are using the term “kick” differently ?
 
I’ve never been a left handed shooter but if your talking about the direction the rear of the arrow (fletching) is kicking then a right handed shooter the rear of the arrow “kicks” left and impacts right of target when it is weak. A left handed would be the opposite. Maybe we are using the term “kick” differently ?
What you described is what my arrow is doing when I add weight, but I’m left handed.

This is a couple days old but you can see what the arrow is doing as described.

 
It appears to me that I’m doing something weird with my bow hand/grip to affect the flight.
 
Man, I’m at a loss on why decreasing spine is giving you stiffer results.

It’s hard to see your grip. You do have a little bit of a pluck with your release. Compare the movement of your hand with mine in post #7. I can’t imagine that would cause your results though.

have you shot a bare shaft? Doing so might give you some additional info. It will make whatever your arrows doing easier to see.
 
Having given this some thought, if it we me I would decide what weight I wanted up front (ballpark) and start over bareshaft tuning. The reason for this is you said that you didn't believe last fall's setup was flying perfect and you have bene having fits with these new arrows. I would start fresh and bareshaft a new arrow setup from the ground up.
 
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