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SRT Climbing - Anchors, Hitches, Configurations
- Thread starter gcr0003
- Start date
MNFarmHunter
Well-Known Member
That's what I thought but wasn't sure and here's why I asked.
Further messing around with various tree diameters in the yard, my 25' of base anchor rope could be either too long or too short. That led me back to thinking about my 50' of Resc-Tech but I'd never (never say never) need that length of base anchor rope plus my 50' of climbing rope. However, tying in an AB at whatever length I need is doable and allows for a custom length rope for any tree or height.
Process:
Using a throwline or preset, pull the climbing rope up standing end first,
Once the full length of that rope is pulled out of the bag, connect the base anchor rope to the rigging ring,
Continue pulling the climbing rope until a few feet of the standing end are on the ground,
Take the base anchor rope bag and pass it around the trunk 3-4 times,
Tie an alpine butterfly in the standing end of the base anchor rope and link that to the working end of the base anchor rope.
If asked nicely, I could wow the audience again with my drawings
That's what I thought but wasn't sure and here's why I asked.
Further messing around with various tree diameters in the yard, my 25' of base anchor rope could be either too long or too short. That led me back to thinking about my 50' of Resc-Tech but I'd never (never say never) need that length of base anchor rope plus my 50' of climbing rope. However, tying in an AB at whatever length I need is doable and allows for a custom length rope for any tree or height.
Process:
Using a throwline or preset, pull the climbing rope up standing end first,
Once the full length of that rope is pulled out of the bag, connect the base anchor rope to the rigging ring,
Continue pulling the climbing rope until a few feet of the standing end are on the ground,
Take the base anchor rope bag and pass it around the trunk 3-4 times,
Tie an alpine butterfly in the standing end of the base anchor rope and link that to the working end of the base anchor rope.
If asked nicely, I could wow the audience again with my drawings
That would work for sure. Did you watch the video I linked in post #118? A running alpine butterfly with a scaffold knot as a choker is stupid simple and infinitely adjustable for length. I can’t think of a reason not to use it.
You could even use your shorter base anchor rope and connect it to your climbing rope.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 8,063
I went to REI to get my hands on some Petzl gear and was pleasantly surprised at how light weight and compact the GRI GRI, Micro traxion, and Hand ascender was. I am really having a hard time justifying not going with one or more of these items as my primary climbing tools. The alternative is the rope runner in combination of a friction hitch or simple friction hitches by themselves. Someone give me your thoughts to help me pull the trigger on some of this stuff.
MNFarmHunter
Well-Known Member
In terms of mechanicals, I now have a Petzl hand ascender but started with a Ropeman 1 and (2) carabiners. In terms of function, they're identical but the Petzl is a much nicer handle and don't get rope burns on my pinky.
If you already have a Ropeman 1 or 2 and (2) carabiners, try that first. See if you like it, if it's good enough or want to spring for a more pricey device. A Duck didn't work well for this due to the angle the rope goes through it.
If you already have a Ropeman 1 or 2 and (2) carabiners, try that first. See if you like it, if it's good enough or want to spring for a more pricey device. A Duck didn't work well for this due to the angle the rope goes through it.
I have a lot of experience with a Petzl left hand ascender with a foot loop tied to it and also a carabiner at the top of it as a redirect for my MadRock Safeguard. Having said that, I’m switching to Michoacán as my ascender and a JRB style Garda hitch foot loop. It’s quieter and for some reason, it’s actually easier for me. So, four carabiners and some hitch cord would be my suggestion to start.
MNFarmHunter
Well-Known Member
That is my one complaint against the Petzl as it does chatter when advancing it. The Ropeman 1 didn't do this and cannot comment on the other brands.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 8,063
How does the Garda hitch do on single ropes? What diameters have you used. This did cross my mind as well.
Garda works great on 8 mm, good on 9mm and not so great on 10.5 mm. Those are the only ones I have tried.
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John RB
Well-Known Member
Hey man. I just saw this thread, as I truly can't keep up with all the correspondence I have going in different places, but I wanted to take a moment and reply to your questions... just trying to help, because i have gone thru all of this in my own climbing journey. i spent 12 years improving my MRS/DdRT system before deciding to incorporate some SRT, and from the two, the JRB system was conceived. Now, I can't find a reason to use MRS or SRT. But let me share what I know about SRT.
1. Anchors. One of the biggest problems with SRT for hunting IS the anchor.
Option 1 is a basal anchor. I am REALLY good with knots, but I don't like needing to tie any life sustaining knots in the woods if that can be avoided. Well, not only are we tying a life sustaining knot in potentially dark conditions, something we want to avoid, but we are burning a lot of rope to do so. We need enough rope to make the anchor, and go up and back down. And the rope has to be rated as a lead line (a number one on the decal) which means strong enough to hold our lives on a SINGLE line (not a half or double line, which are generally thinner). And so lets say the highest I hunt is 25 feet and sometimes need to grab a crotch as high as 32 feet to do so. Well, ya need a minimum of 75 feet of rope. But every system I built with 75 feet always kept me out of a few trees with non optimal crotch height. After all, we can stop climbing at our hunting height, but need to throw to whatever height the crotch is. Basal anchor also has one other disadvantage: the load on the tree crotch is DOUBLE your weight. A canopy anchor only puts one copy of your weight on the branch. In terms of WHAT knot to use for the basal anchor, I now use a locked JRB hitch for it. I never liked any of the other options. What i used to do was two wraps around the tree, then a double bowline as a running loop around the line as it goes up to the canopy. A running double bowline is REALLY strong. I have tested them. I have broken them with tractor pulls too.
Option 2 is a canopy anchor. I recommend it. But if ya wanna absolutely minimize the amount of rope you need to install it, say 35 feet of actual rope, then you need to have line attached to the tail end of it (from the tag end, potentially removable) that is of the same length. Why? Cuz when you pull it up to the 32 foot crotch, the tail is at your feet. As soon as it goes over the crotch, your tail starts going up in the air, and as you continue to pull the rope down to set your anchor, the tail would not be able to be recovered unless it has a line attached to it. ok, now ya draw the climbing line down to you and when it arrives, ya basically have the climbing line upside down on one side of the crotch and your tail line going up the other side of the crotch. Keeping with the them of not needing to tie any knots at the tree, you could have had an end loop already on that climbing line. the problem is that a Fig 8 or butterfly is pretty bulky and so it might not have passed the crotch. I don't like that kind of non-determinism. And so I simply tied a Fig 8 and climbed trees with crotches big enough to pass it. I don't want any metal on that anchor. Now, after you pass the loop thru the cord, and make sure the retrieval line is attached, ya and start pulling the cord down, so the anchor loop starts to rise, and at some point halfway up the tree, the anchor loop needs to PASS the junction between the cord and the tag end of the rope. That can be a problem unless you came up with a nice, smooth junction. Otherwise it gets stuck... you curse... etc. And if you don't solve that problem, well they you are gonna wish you just carried the full 75 feet of rope, so there is no problem in that passing. Ok, but either way, its all a bit messy and wasteful. Whether its 75 feet of continuous rope or two lines joined together, it's a lot to coil and bring up in the tree.
Conclusion: I hate anchors. No anchors for me. In MRS/DdRT and in JRB, effectively, we are the anchor.
This is a fair place to take the question about taking your rope up in the tree. I could tell you multiple stories about deer noticing my rope when I leave it down on the ground. One cost me a shot at a monster buck, probably 13 years ago. He was literally sniffing it RIGHT beneath me. Never returned to that spot again. Sometimes, I will leave it down just to re-test my experience. Last season, I had just climbed a new tree with my Oplux, and as soon as i got to hunting height, here comes an old doe leading a small gang. She hung up at 20 yards and noticed that rope and stayed on it for 15 minutes. She eventually found me, but I was hiding on the backside of the tree. I was pretty damn uncomfortable hiding motionless for 20 + minutes before I could get my shot and fill a tag. Sure, your deer might behave differently. I have been told that deer act VERY differently in different parts of the country. I have observed it within my own state of PA. I'll never know. But if I am after a target buck, my rope ALWAYS comes up in the tree with me. I spend too much effort locating him to take any chances I don't need to take.
Ok now in terms of WHAT running loop you might use (for either a basal anchor or a canopy anchor), assuming you tie them right, I am not ok with a standard bowline. If it is a PRE-TIED loop that ya don't need to tie or untie in the woods, I like Figure 8 loop or Scotts Locked Yosemite Bowline. If I tie it in the woods, Alpine butterfly if tied in the bight or Double bowline if tied with the end. Yes, you will find people in rock climbing who object to the bowline. I believed them until i tested some of mine. It's the king of knots for a reason. And make sure you tie it right. Tag end is INSIDE the loop, not outside. Nice long tail.
Ok, now about technique. I am not saying you can't do RADS without a device, but basically speaking, they are synonymous. I like flexibility. I wanna be able to climb on any of my dozen ropes of varying diameters. If somebody comes out with a 7mm Oplux like rope, I wanna climb it. I don't want a device restriction that stops me at 8mm. Devices can be dropped. They can be lost. They are metal. They are expensive. And most guys are backing them up anyway. They are a prohibitive investment to new climbers. And so in conclusion, I like to do my SRT climbing on friction hitches. I use a sit-stand method, which some call a "Texas style" or "Texas system" SRT. But I do believe my design is very sleek and smoother than any I have seen on video.
How exactly do I climb? Well, I first created my Garda Hitch footloop for my SRT method, and then moved it over to the JRB. I never LOVED it though, because sometimes it would slip. But then I solved that problem by using what I call a "Bull Hitch Variant" to create it. (I believe you saw it,b but anybody else can find that video by searching for "JRB Tree Climbing Building Garda Hitch Footloop". And so that's, the bottom of the system. The friction hitch is really something special though. I don't believe anybody else is doing it and so I probably should do a video of it. It's not a new knot, but it is a unique use of knots to create a rope device. Let me see if I can get a camera operator this weekend and make something for ya... I have more info than time, and I am happy to share it.
John RB
Well-Known Member
What you're describing is exactly how I would SRT climb before SRT. But I need to show ya something that's even better than a Michoacán... and note that Michoacán IS my favorite friction hitch. I will get ya a video this weekend and post it on this thread.
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I am very interested in that. Is it the FB group page or is it something you haven’t shown before?
John RB
Well-Known Member
I just filmed a video in one take. I will upload it as soon as I can. But it will probably be posted tomorrow cuz tonight is booked. I will reply here as soon as it is uploaded. I don't know you or the other guys in here of course. But when a fellow climber and fellow Hunter has a question and I can help, it really motivates me to go into my toy box in show what I have learned. It's a really cool use of social media and brotherly love. I'm from Philly, and that's what Philadelphia is supposed to mean. We just don't see enough of it these days. Cheers
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tmattson
Well-Known Member
Following. I jpoind the group on F-book, just pending approval.
John RB
Well-Known Member
Here you go brother. You motivated me to get this done today. I am probably going to make this a separate post in here... I really think a lot of people will benefit from it.
Awesome. I wondered if it was going to be the double Michoacán. I’m going to try it today. When I have been climbing with the single Michoacán JRB-style, I have absolutely needed the PVC breaker to start my descent. Maybe this will eliminate that need for me.
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tmattson
Well-Known Member
Going try this!
tmattson
Well-Known Member
For 8mm Oplux think 6 feet of 6mm Sterling TRC should work. Any other 6mm accessory cord?
John RB
Well-Known Member
This will surprise you because its a large ratio, but on 8mm Oplux, I prefer Sterling standard 7mm utility cord and i use a 6 wrap Michoacán. That statement holds whether your building a double meech, or a Michoacán loop as i use in my JRB climbing system. Something i have not done yet, and will be trying is to see if i prefer replacing my upper/primary friction loops in the JRB Climbing System with a double meech on each side.
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tmattson
Well-Known Member
In that config, "double mich", does that double the strength of the hitch cord?