The Dangers of Short Static Falls

[trailblazer75]

So last year, I hunted atop 3 Heliums with custom 2 step aiders on each that would get me anywhere from 18' to 25' depending on the tree and stick spacing. It worked well, but I felt clumsy hanging the sticks and climbing with my LB. I always seemed to have it too tight, and had trouble lifting my leg high enough for the next step, or so loose that it didn't provide much fall protection.

I eventually cut one of the Heliums down and reinstalled the 2 step aider. I use this mini stick to One-Stick climb. One-sticking feels a lot more natural to me, especially coming from ~15 years of climbing stand experience. It is essentially the same process, but allows me to go around branches and carry a lot less weight and bulk. It also feels safer to me, because I am always attached to the tree with my tether. At most, I can only fall maybe 2-3' in an absolute worst case scenario. However, it seems even a 1-2' drop can mess you up.

50% of the climb, you are hanging on a slackless tether and are 100% safe (in my opinion), but the other 50%, you are ascending a stick in the same manner you would if you were using 3 or 4 sticks.

My question to those who One-Stick climb:
Are you using only your tether or do you incorporate your LB as well?

I'm glad to find someone thinking of what I only just discovered. I experimented with both and came up with this; When my tether has any slack, my LB has tension. If my tether is loaded I will loosen or remove my LB in order to make stick moves. My thoughts are, a loaded tether is far safer that a slacked tether and LB. I'll also snug my tether as I ascend my stick while making my climb, until I can't any more, at which point I'll snug my LB, move up my tether and start again.

 

[bj139]

I eliminate slack in my tether by installing a rope up a tree and and then climbing the rope and not the tree. Much safer IMHO.

 

[powhound84]

oh, you edited the post. yes, you ovbiously dont want to pull it through, then you're weighting it in a the same way you release it... but again a properly tied knot with the right length of cordage(so not too much slack in each of the loop ends after having the correct amount of wraps to create the friction you want) is key.

Yeah I realized right after posting that I had worded it weird. Definitely a slick trick, just gotta make sure it stays dressed neatly and on the right side of the biner. Even if its dressed and correctly wrapped, small cord can flip right through a rocklock if you yank the tag up.

 

[deerfly]

I eliminate slack in my tether by installing a rope up a tree and and then climbing the rope and not the tree. Much safer IMHO.

I do the same thing, but after going down from 11 to 9mm climbing rope I also typically use a tether girth hitched to the tree as I SRT/RAD climb too. Probably more psychological than prudent or necessary when climbing a properly rated rope, but fwiw having a second attachment to the tree makes me feel safer. Need to look at a ripstop or screamer for increased shock absorption in this tether application though, seems like a no brainer.

In general I think these static fall and fall factor links should be sticky's and mandatory reading for all saddle hunters regardless.

 

[Tony]

OSHA states that the max force a human body can be exposed to in a fall is 1800 lbs...more than that and your guts turn into jelly. I think US Army figured this out by dropping prisoners in harnesses attached to steel cables from different heights to see what happened. This is why all Tower Gear (Fall Arrest Lanyards and Rope Grabs) has a shock absorber built in. The gear can withstand the fall but your body can't.

 

[BenG]

Another idea/question:

I typically only use my tether when One-Sticking, but I always have a LB on me at the ready for sketchy tree sections or going around branches. Has anyone ever considered or tried using a 2 tether combo (1 dynamic, 1 static) for One-Sticking instead of a static tether/LB combo?

You could One-Stick climb, using a dynamic tether as your main connection. That way, if you were to fall, the dynamic tether would reduce the force transferred to you. (Similar to Kyler's DMM Ripstop setup) You could use the static tether as a LB or temporary tether to go around branches, then when you get to hunting height, you could replace the dynamic tether with the static one, and hunt.

I guess if the dynamic tether stretches, the prusik may not tighten or lock right away. That said, when I start climbing with one stick, I usually adjust the prusik on my tether accordingly and I don't touch it again until I am at hunting height so that all my moves are consistent and predictable. Why couldn't you use a dynamic tether with no prusik, where you simply tie a temporary loop where you would normally position your prusik and hook your bridge into this loop with your biner?

This would make your moves consistent and predictable, provide energy absorbing fall protection, and still allow you to go around branches easily.

What do you guys think? Is this feasible or worth pursuing? (I have zero experience with dynamic rope - Maybe it stretches too much when hanging on it?)

Honestly, the stretch of the dynamic rope while standing there on your platform isn't even noticeable to me. I only have a very short section of tether between me and the tree, most of that space is taken up by my bridge and the blakes hitch I run from the tether to the bridge. It is noticeable if you are one sticking and have a few feet or so of rope between you and the tree but it doesn't really matter you just sink down a little farther when you weight it. Also, never had a problem with my friction hitch grabbing.

I don't like to put much faith in my lineman belt so I'll usually use my tether while going up my sticks then I'll just use the lineman as needed to help me hang the next stick or get around a branch. It can be cumbersome using the tether the whole time, not nearly as convenient as the LB but man if for some reason a stick ever did go out on me I would not want to bank on my LB to catch me.

 

[bj139]

I do the same thing, but after going down from 11 to 9mm climbing rope I also typically use a tether girth hitched to the tree as I SRT/RAD climb too. Probably more psychological than prudent or necessary when climbing a properly rated rope, but fwiw having a second attachment to the tree makes me feel safer. Need to look at a ripstop or screamer for increased shock absorption in this tether application though, seems like a no brainer.

In general I think these static fall and fall factor links should be sticky's and mandatory reading for all saddle hunters regardless.

After reading about people here going to 8mm rope for tether and linemans belt I climbed SRT/RADS a few times on some 8mm dynamic rope I had. When I did, I felt uneasy. It just seemed too thin. I bought some other ropes and have been climbing RADS with a 8.5mm dynamic rope. It seems much more substantial. Here is a picture of the 8.0mm, 8.5mm, 9.0mm and the short leads 10.5mm and 11.7mm. The hanks are all about 35 feet to show size differences. The 8.0mm was always intended for double rope applications so I was pushing it. 9.0mm is perfectly acceptable single rope from what I have read. I feel perfectly safe with the 8.5mm. It is a bit bouncy, but that is what dynamic rope is. It absorbs shock. The longer the fall the more the absorption.

 

[weekender21]

My 9mm Sterling HTP has a listed elongation of 0.3% at 300 lbs. The dynamic ropes have an elongation of 8% to 11%. Big difference.

Are guys using HTP for tethers? I see no reason not to use static for SRT. Using rope with more stretch for some applications certainly has a place. I don't put slack in my system 90% of the time but on rare occasion I will use the one stick method. Definitely a good argument for wanting more stretch in that scenario.

 

[mattsteg]

Are guys using HTP for tethers? I see no reason not to use static for SRT. Using rope with more stretch for some applications certainly has a place. I don't put slack in my system 90% of the time but on rare occasion I will use the one stick method. Definitely a good argument for wanting more stretch in that scenario.

Sure. I am and doubtless others, although this is all giving another excuse to upgrade to oplux (or at least test it). I also don't put slack in my tether. Predator doesn't stretch much more. Tethrd stretches probably similar but unpublished. Ultratech stretches less.

 

[bj139]

The big reason to use static rope is for work positioning of tree limbs when cutting and arborists when doing the cutting. I haven't found any negatives to using dynamic rope for saddle hunting. There may be some but I haven't found any. If I fall, I can let you know if there are any advantages. If I am on static rope, maybe not.
I just remembered a disadvantage to dynamic rope. Since, when the rope stretches it becomes thinner, friction hitches loose contact with the rope and have to be reset. Someone climbing on friction hitches already knows this or soon will.

 

[weekender21]

Sure. I am and doubtless others, although this is all giving another excuse to upgrade to oplux (or at least test it). I also don't put slack in my tether. Predator doesn't stretch much more. Tethrd stretches probably similar but unpublished. Ultratech stretches less.

I'm using OpLux as a tether now and that too is classified as static although it has some stretch. I'm not sweating it though as I do not purposely introduce slack in the system while hunting. Great conversation for one sticking or similar.

I prefer static for SRT as well. Again, that's a no slack climbing scenario, or can be.

Great thread and something that should be on everyones mind anytime when considering putting slack in your system.

 

[deerfly]

Agree with bj139, after a couple years climbing SRT/RAD for saddle hunting I don't think static vs dynamic rope matters much either. The only "work positioning" I do is hang my Predator, which takes all of a minute. We're only climbing 18'-22' or so too, which is enough to get seriously hurt or killed if you're careless, but its chicken **** elevation wise when you consider what most climbing gear is normally used for.

Even if you climb with sticks or something and just descend on a rope, dynamic climbing ropes should be just fine and maybe even better to rappel down with a gentle bounce in the system.

And ftr I don't try any moves where I'd have slack in my tether at hunting height either, but do when using tether as a back up to SRT climbing. In that application a little slack is unavoidable. So a dynamic rope as the tether and a shock absorption device between the prusik and bridge makes a lot of sense to me. I think I'm going to try and find some CanyonLux by the foot and experiment a bit.

Also agree this is a very good thread....

 

[Homebrew454]

I'm currently using 9mm htp for SRT but my main concern is when I use my WE steps with knaider/swaider or just knaider. I had 1 issue where I slid with the lineman's...I leaned back and stopped rather quickly. It was during a flip up of the lineman's when the oh @#$_ moment happened. Since this issue, I have been debating on adding a tether with the lineman's. I haven't had an issue but with winter approaching and slippery boots it is always in the back of my mind.

Would one be better off to stick with static rope and attaching a screamer or similarly made safety device? Or would you be better off to switch to dynamic rope like canyonlux, nano IX, etc for the tether?



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[powhound84]

I just remembered a disadvantage to dynamic rope. Since, when the rope stretches it becomes thinner, friction hitches loose contact with the rope and have to be reset. Someone climbing on friction hitches already knows this or soon will.

Plus, some of the dynamic capabilities are decreased temporarily after hangin on the rope. It takes a while for a rope to “rest” and get its bounce back once stretched. Honestly, when you only have a few feet in the system, there’s not much room for give anyway. I’m not sure dynamic would make a huge difference but I’m sure it would help a bit. I’ve thought about trying it but don’t want to cut any of my climbing ropes


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[melocal]

In my line of work I've had a fair bit of exposure to working at height along with a bit of training (read: I know enough to be dangerous!), and there is always a focus on fall prevention vs fall arrest, which I believe applies to this thread, and making sure you understand the designed purpose of the equipment and limitations -is it meant to stop me from falling, or is it meant to stop me while falling?? Thanks for starting thread, really important discussion.

I have been thinking about posting this idea for a while, specifically related those one sticking or having slack in tether for whatever reason.

Self retracting lifelines (SRL) are designed to keep slack out of a system, have a deceleration pack, and an indicator to show the user if the device has been shock loaded. However, they are kind of clunky, nothing like the super light equipment in saddle hunting.

3M DBI Sala 3100528 Nano-Lok Single Leg, 6 ft Personal Self Retracting Life Line, ANSI Class 1, Aluminum Carabiner Connector, Aluminum Captive Eye Carabiner

At Durawear Glove & Safety Company you can find and purchase gas detection equipment, fall protection, work gloves, safety glasses & other safety equipment here at Durawear.com. Learn more about how we provide our customers with the best safety products

www.durawear.com

Thoughts? I'm sharing this more as a discussion on concept, not this exact device in the hyperlink.

 

[drew13]

In my line of work I've had a fair bit of exposure to working at height along with a bit of training (read: I know enough to be dangerous!), and there is always a focus on fall prevention vs fall arrest, which I believe applies to this thread, and making sure you understand the designed purpose of the equipment and limitations -is it meant to stop me from falling, or is it meant to stop me while falling?? Thanks for starting thread, really important discussion.

I have been thinking about posting this idea for a while, specifically related those one sticking or having slack in tether for whatever reason.

Self retracting lifelines (SRL) are designed to keep slack out of a system, have a deceleration pack, and an indicator to show the user if the device has been shock loaded. However, they are kind of clunky, nothing like the super light equipment in saddle hunting.

3M DBI Sala 3100528 Nano-Lok Single Leg, 6 ft Personal Self Retracting Life Line, ANSI Class 1, Aluminum Carabiner Connector, Aluminum Captive Eye Carabiner

At Durawear Glove & Safety Company you can find and purchase gas detection equipment, fall protection, work gloves, safety glasses & other safety equipment here at Durawear.com. Learn more about how we provide our customers with the best safety products

www.durawear.com

Thoughts? I'm sharing this more as a discussion on concept, not this exact device in the hyperlink.

Ironic, I was just looking at SRL’s last night and woke up to find this post! I think there is merit here.

There are a couple of similar things already made for hunting that I have found (though I’m not sure if they technically qualify as SRL). Treestand Wingman and Primal Treestands Descender Fall Arrest System to name two.

 

[deerfly]

I just ordered a Shorty Screamer to try on my tether when rope climbing and descending. Might use it at hunting height if it doesn't lengthen my bridge connection too much to gets in my way somehow. Otherwise, it seems like a simple and sane addition to my existing tether for ascent/descent.

 

[mattsteg]

I just ordered a Shorty Screamer to try on my tether when rope climbing and descending. Might use it at hunting height if it doesn't lengthen my bridge connection too much to gets in my way somehow. Otherwise, it seems like a simple and sane addition to my existing tether for ascent/descent.

How long is this thing anywY?

It blows my mind how it is promoted as "shorter" without publishing a length spec.

 

[kyler1945]

OSHA states that the max force a human body can be exposed to in a fall is 1800 lbs...more than that and your guts turn into jelly. I think US Army figured this out by dropping prisoners in harnesses attached to steel cables from different heights to see what happened. This is why all Tower Gear (Fall Arrest Lanyards and Rope Grabs) has a shock absorber built in. The gear can withstand the fall but your body can't.

1800lbs in a 5pt harness. We are hunting in saddles. There is a big difference between the two. We need to be careful putting numbers like this out there without being very specific. Someone could read your post, and think they’re ok falling 3-4 feet in a saddle, and then making a life changing mistake.

 

[bj139]

There is the Petzl ASAP for fall arrest. Price is pretty high.

Petzl ASAP Fall Arrester

With its unique locking system, the ASAP is a reference product in fall protection for workers at height. In normal use, the device moves freely along the rope without any manual intervention and accompanies the user in all his movements.

cascade-rescue.com

Petzl ASAP Mobile Rope Grab

The Petzl B070AA00 Asap mobile rope grab moves up and down a rope and will stop a fall or uncontrolled descent.

www.gmesupply.com