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The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

I hear a lot that building better arrows is so expensive. If you start from scratch with your existing arrows and compare"better arrows" why didn't I say heavy arrows? Because they don't all need to be 650gr+. The total cost between what your shooting now and the other isn't that much. Better components are going to cost a little more, solid broadheads are going to cost a little more. Most folks can add a heavier broadhead that penetrates better and is more beefy than the one their shooting, start there. Add just the footer and armor the fronts of your existing arrows and add a little weight. Arrow failure caused me some trouble last season. Our bows should be in tune anyway, so that's not new or expensive, but it could mean change for some and that's not always comfortable. Learning a new way takes a little time and effort. Trust me, you will feel empowered when you master the skill required to get your own setups shooting good instead of having to run to a shop to have them try to figure it out for you every time. So start by adding that little bit more to the front( within specs for your existing shaft of course) we don't need to start blowing up shafts because they're way under spined. That's what the field point test packs are for. Go up incrementally until your shaft tells you it's starting to get to weak, that's the limit for that shaft at that length. If you want more and can have your shafts shortened that'll stiffen em up some. If not this is the point you have to change your shafts. I think one of the most important things with the better arrow trend is that foremost it gets us thinking about our setups and how we can increase our potential for increased penetration. All change doesn't need to be radical to achieve improvement.
 
I just hopped onto archerytalk to prove a point. And in doing so I got another 11 arrows of exactly what I shoot, with ethics installed, for 55% of retail. I'll have to cut them to length and fletch (I use zingers and fobs, so I don't ever pay to fletch anymore, or buy fletching anymore).

Once you figure your set up out, just casually peruse classifieds here, AT, and Rokslide. You'll find your spine arrows for sale ALL the time. For CHEAP.



How about this one

www.archerytalk.com

Sold - Preowned Axis 340 arrows

I have 18 yotal arrows of thr axis 340 cut 30.5 inch and inserts at install only 1 arrow had been shot. Ask 150.00 for them all
www.archerytalk.com www.archerytalk.com

Here, someone could get these arrows, fletched, for 55% of retail. Cut them to your length, throw in inserts and you're rolling.


You could go to Walmart and buy the cheap ones too. It doesn't matter. but this is a great way to save some dough, or shoot nicer arrows if you care or shoot longer distances, and tolerances come into play.
 
I need to hop over there and find a sight and arrow rest. Lol. I keep saying that by now action lol! Sept is coming quick!


See you in a tree, Ricky
 
elk yinzer said:
Rock on, I'm a huge proponent of "good enough" when it comes to slaying deers. Most important thing is getting proficient at using it under pressure. A bunch of fancy gear and phd in archerytalk dorkery only does so much good if you fall apart in the heat of the moment.
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Truth, a person can read up on the latest/greatest equipment on forums all day being convinced its necessary, then lose out on the big details due to not getting familiarized with their own setup before a hunt.
 
I just read this over a coffee...well the first post anyway. This is good.
I’ll consider this to reverse engineer my next set up . instead of letting the geeked up pro shop guy over engineer my set up only to have to spend two years getting my set up right.
I really have been favoring crossbows and recurves to cut the pontification and get to good enough ... to safely and quickly harvest my target at a reasonable budget.
 
Revisiting this thread and wondering if the same process applies to the HC Mini? I punched in the numbers I thought I knew for step 1 and got 475 for 250 fps. I didn't add anything for weight on string since I didn't know this.

Sound right?

I used 330 fps, 13" draw length, and 150 lb draw weight.
 
TNSTAAFL said:
Revisiting this thread and wondering if the same process applies to the HC Mini? I punched in the numbers I thought I knew for step 1 and got 475 for 250 fps. I didn't add anything for weight on string since I didn't know this.

Sound right?

I used 330 fps, 13" draw length, and 150 lb draw weight.
Click to expand...

my mini maxed out shoots a 510gr arrow 282fps
 
TNSTAAFL said:
How do I know what spine to pick? The chart stops at 90 lbs of draw, and the Mini is set at 150.
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a 300 spine would probably work, but I bought some 250’s someone put the ethics half outs in, didn’t like the setup, and I bought them dirt cheap. Chopped to length from back end fletched and good to go. Stick a 200gr point on the stock arrows and see how they shoot.

but I can confirm a 250 spine with 225 up front cut roughly same length as stock arrows flies true to 50 yards. No need to shoot past that.

remember these arrows are very short.
 
kyler1945 said:
a 300 spine would probably work, but I bought some 250’s someone put the ethics half outs in, didn’t like the setup, and I bought them dirt cheap. Chopped to length from back end fletched and good to go. Stick a 200gr point on the stock arrows and see how they shoot.

but I can confirm a 250 spine with 225 up front cut roughly same length as stock arrows flies true to 50 yards. No need to shoot past that.

remember these arrows are very short.
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Again, thanks. To confirm, cause I'm a dumbass... you're recommending I try either:

1) stock arrows (victory) with a 200 grain broadhead (and no outsert, just use stock inserts).

2) Find 250 spine arrows, cut to match stock length, add 100 grain ethics outsert and 125 grain broadhead.

Do I have that right?
 
TNSTAAFL said:
Again, thanks. To confirm, cause I'm a dumbass... you're recommending I try either:

1) stock arrows (victory) with a 200 grain broadhead (and no outsert, just use stock inserts).

2) Find 250 spine arrows, cut to match stock length, add 100 grain ethics outsert and 125 grain broadhead.

Do I have that right?
Click to expand...

1 - I bet would work.

2 - I know works.

So, yes.

I just assumed you had a 200+ field point or something laying around. I guess that’s not common haha. I’m betting you could get away with 200-250 on a 300 spine for a mini. My 29” 300 spine arrows fly true with 225 up front from my compound set at 76/30.5”

anyone have a mini, stock arrows, and a 200 grain field point that can shoot the combo maxed out and see if the spine is sufficient?
 
Bumping this up for folks trying to take advantage of end of the year gear dumps.

I've killed four deer this year with 525 grain arrows. 100gr SS ethics half out, 125gr very sharp coc fixed two blade heads.

First deer 15 yard shot, broadside steep angle. Through scapula, out low in ribcage off side. Deer was amped up at shot, so it ran 30-40 yards, stopped, then crashed another 30-40 yards.

Second deer about 25 yards quartering slightly to. Steep angle, but I misjudged distance slightly, thought the deer was 30 or slightly over away, and reacted hard to shot, so I hit high. Arrow severed spine, but punctured diaphragm and dorsal aorta. Deer dropped, and crawled about 15 yards downhill before dying.

Third deer 15 yards, broadside, steeper angle than I thought. Pinwheeled him in my head (line separating lower third from middle third, lined up with elbow). He bound across creek and stopped about 40 yards away. I thought for sure he'd fall over while I was fishing another arrow from quiver. Drew, and caught brush/bad form on shot. He never moved. I grabbed third arrow, got a more secure footing, concentrated on form, and got a second arrow in him center mass. I would have aimed further forward, but front of chest covered by a tree. He trotted about 40-50 yards and died. Glad I got the second arrow in - the first was a single lung shot. He likely would've been difficult to recover.

Fourth deer - came in at closing time. I had already quivered my arrow, and had bow on hook facing me to drop to ground. I grabbed bow, clipped on release, and drew when the deer was broadside at 30 yards. Years of shooting a two prong rest has me in the habit of looking down before shooting to be sure arrow is on rest properly. I looked down, and no arrow. Haha in my rush, I forgot to nock an arrow. I drew down, nocked an arrow, while the deer was walking straight at me looking up. She got to ten yards quartering to, looking at me. I was going to have to get down with her under me anyway, so I drew. She never moved just staring. She was almost facing directly at me, though I thought it was just a fairly hard quarter - due to darkness I couldn't quite tell. I hit right in back edge of scapula (right where I was aiming due to steep angle). Arrow passed full length of body and exited out the gut then through the hindquarter. Cut the dorsal aorta and femoral artery. Deer bound to 30 yards and flipped upside down.

I've had two "misses" also. First was clean miss due to deflection off of a branch making a weak side shot, and not verifying clear path. Second I broke a deer's leg by misjudging distance. I had ranged a tree at 28 yards, and the buck was on the move as I was drawing. I thought he was right at or just behind the tree when I released. No blood on arrow and only a couple flecks on trail. He had a lot of trouble running, so it appears I just cut the tendons on back of his leg. I ranged point of impact at 41 yards. Felt pretty silly, but I never saw the deer standing still until i was in my peep, and couldn't reference the tree with good depth perception.

I shoot a single pin, set at 28 yards. I hit +-3" from 0-33 yards with my bow (76lbs, 30.5" draw).

I carry a rangefinder sometimes (in terrain with elevation changes) just to establish my 30 yard circle.

I shoot my bow out to 100 yards in offseason in preparation for western hunting, but once deer season starts, I don't shoot past 50 really.

I didn't have a deer go beyond 100 yards this year, last year, or the season before with this setup.

Blood trails are easy to follow, especially when deer don't run like they've been slapped on the butt. They tend to die in sight.

I use some more expensive components, because I want to. But I could replicate my setup for about 15 bucks if I watched classifieds on AT, or bought cheap walmart arrows, and do just fine.

My bow is tuned. My arrows are tuned. My broadheads are very very sharp, with no moving parts. Arrow weight is 525 grains. I have a single pin. There are aspects of my setup that are complicated and detailed for western hunting. But for deer season, the whole thing is locked down, no nonsense, no thinking, no nothing. I put the pin on the deer and pull the trigger. They tend to die in sight.

Doesn't mean everything goes right every time. Doesn't mean an extra inch of cutting diameter might not get me a deer I otherwise wouldn't have recovered one day. Doesn't mean an extra 150 grains of weight would ensure I'd make it through front leg knuckle and still exit the deer. But for me, the tradeoff of an easy to tune arrow, easy to procure components, deer not being aware they've just been mortally wounded, and typically falling over in sight, is worth it.
 
kyler1945 said:
I shoot a single pin, set at 28 yards. I hit +-3" from 0-33 yards with my bow (76lbs, 30.5" draw).
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Yep, I've been doing the single pin thing for years. No thinking involved just point and pull. I had to re-calibrate going to a heavier arrow a little bit but basically I sighted in for 15 yards and it is pretty good from 0-30 yards for me and my setup.
 
kyler1945 said:
Put simply, your best odds of connecting with your target and killing it quickly, is not to shoot a whitetail deer past 30 yards. Yes, there are edge cases. Yes, there are things you could do to potentially extend that effective range. But if you know how to do that, and ARE doing it, you're not reading this post. Something like 90+% of deer are killed and recovered with a bow within 30 yards, and I suspect something like 90% of that is within 20 yards. Part of that is people not shooting past 30, and part is how low your odds of success become shooting beyond 30.
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I have often advised guys who insist a bow hunter be as proficient a shot to as far a distance as they can be and will not hesitate (some due to the forgiving nature of MBH's) to take 50-60 yard ++ shot if as they say "conditions are perfect" I then tell them do the deer and yourself a favor and thumb through the pages of the latest edition of the P&Y book for deer and take careful notice of the average distance 80% or more bucks are taken at. It will be much closer to 25 yards than 50 let alone any farther.
There is a reason for that fact I feel I need not explain.
Don't get me wrong I have watched in awe of archers who can with boring regularity hit 8" circles with mostly mechanical but also FBBH tipped arrows at 60, 70 and even 80 yards, but as you said these are deer and deer especially mature bucks, do many more unexpected than expected things, and the conditions and circumstances under which we hunt and when a broadhead tipped arrow hits and enters a deer have not much in common with target practice and shooting at inanimate 100% predictable stationary targets has very little in common with shooting at 90%+ unpredictable deer.
 
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Nutterbuster said:
I've found that 260-280 is about the sweet spot with speed. Too much lower and you get what to me is an unacceptable trajectory, too much higher and you run into tuning issues. That's based off of years of tuning everything from brand new speed demons to old bear whitetails.

Good news is most bows and most archers have no problem hitting that number.
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My experience and results EXACTLY. I shoot at a chronograph (my chrono to ne exact) 268fps with a 438+/- grain 340 spined 29.5"arrow and have had zero issues with penetration on more deer than I can recall at the moment but its been more than 1 deer a year for the last 15 years average.
I thankfully I learned from my success that taking under 40 yard only high percentage shots gave me to date a over 95% rate of recovery.
Not judging anyone just what has worked great for me and what my personal experiences have been.
 
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