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The weirdest question I've ever asked in public is:

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Nutterbuster

Nutterbuster

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2 months ago I quit all commercially-obtained animal products that I could identify. I did so for health, environmental, and ethical concerns. Basically I think the average US diet is ridiculously high in animal products and #2 corn and ridiculously deficient in everything else, mass animal farming is an inefficient process, and that animals are unquestionably being harmed needlessly. I eat 3 times a day, and choosing not to eat meat, eggs, dairy, etc is a low-investment/high-impact way to reduce the amount of ****tiness in the world.

I've kept eating the mountain of deer and catfish I've accumulated in the kitchen, and I've added a few fresh corpses to the pile too. My rationale has been that those animals are free to live good lives and die much cleaner than most commercially-processed meat. My meat acquisition practices, I believe(d), benefit vs harm the local ecosystem. Hunting/fishing licenses and the purchase of supplies fund our conservation system.

But there's a nagging though in the back of my head.

If I believe that animals can suffer (I do), and that it is unethical to induce unnecessary suffering (I do)...I really can't personally square hunting with ethical behavior. I could live the rest of my life in health and (relative) happiness and never kill another game animal.

But as somebody who likes shooting bambi a whole lot, I'm asking the tribe if they can square my dilemma.

Who had that on the list for saddlehunter.com bingo? ;)
 
Predator and prey is part of the inevitable and NATURAL circle of life. I argue that technically being an Omnivore(as humans are because their digestive system is designed to process meat and plants) is not participating in nature in the most "natural" way possible.

In fact, not participating in the predator/prey relationship is unnatural and anti-environmental.

If you're worried about living organisms suffering(which I don't disagree with) you must take into consideration even herbivores are eating something living....hell a cow is eating grass ALIVE. At least we don't chomp into Bambi while he's still breathing...

And if that is the weirdest question you've ever asked in public, I dont know you as well as I thought I did....I"m sure you've asked a lot weirder questions....
 
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These are some things I think of that that help that for me.

Why is it normal to feel bad about killing an animal and not a plant? A plant is a living thing. Maybe they don’t “feel” but it’s more similar structure to animals, the stuff inside is just different. They have a shell, blood like stuff, a “brain” it’s just not cute so people don’t feel bad about it.

Also this is more of a thought. But it’s just the way it is. If you wanna live, you have to do harm/end somethings life to continue. If it’s an animal or a plant, somethings dies and will continue to die until you die. So if you really wanna get environmental, lay down and die. That’s harsh but it’s really the truth. (No I’m not recommending that).

I think people search for a happy answer to this question but the reality is what it is. I’m not one to lie to myself or try to make something good out of nothing.
 
Most wild animals dont get aneurysms or die in their sleep. Most animals die of long painful deaths from disease or ripped apart and eaten while still alive. Some are even swallowed hole and are still alive when they enter their predator's stomach.

We do what we can to minimize the amount of suffering.

Pretty much all hunters question themselves on this matter at some point.
 
I also enjoy to fish, but have been finding myself asking this question about catch and release fishing more and more, because it's not meant to feed me, so why am I tearing up fish mouths with hooks? So e say they don't feel as much/the same pain we do, I dunno, I've never run into a fish that seemed to like the process of getting a hook in or out.
 
I’ll bite, I like where your at as far as sourcing meat goes & would like to get there eventually. As far as the killing of a game animal being unethical b/c there’s a possibility of the animal suffering…… I understand the question but can’t make the leap. Would it also be unethical to let them reside in a habitat that consistently puts them in front of a gnarly vehicular demise? As a society we raise the animals to slaughter for profit & for the food chain needs. Game animals are a free range resource that’s raised to live ( most of which live a full life cycle) & thrive & part of the thriving part is hunters being part of the equation of herd management. I feel that my respect for the game animal I kill makes the harvest ethical. I also see it as an opportunity to provide the clean resource for my family & participate in the killing process for our protein. That’s how I square with it….
 
I realize this is going to carry little weight with you but for me, my faith and belief in the Bible plays a big part. From it I believe that all of creation is here for us to use to meet our needs, I believe we are to be stewards of all of creation and I believe as @thedutchtouch mentioned that when we kill to meet our needs it should be done in a fashion to cause as little suffering as possible.
 
You know I had to stop at walmart at 4 in the morning to get some supplies for a hunting trip. you know, ammo, oreo's some fishing line. Yes I was lazy and didnt do it the night before our trip. So I'm standing there in full camo and this cashier lady asks me, are you going hunting tooday? I said yes mam. She said to me I dont agree with hunting because the animal dosent have a chance. So I asked her which animal has the better chance. The deer Im hunting of the cow who is farmed for his meat. She got mad and told me I should just get my meat from the store WHERE THE ANIMALS ARE UNHARMED! I asked her if she even knows how slaughter farms work
 
Applying just math, you're improving an animal's chance of a minimally sufferable death by hunting it with a razor sharp broadhead or firearm.

The bigger the animal you kill, the less sentient beings suffer.

The more of an animal you consume, the less sentient beings suffer.

Americans waste something like half their food - you killing/processing/storing your own makes you less likely to waste it, given the effort involved in procurement.

My moral compass is quite similar - attempt to reduce the amount of suffering that sentient beings as a whole experience. Taken in a broad context, and being pragmatic about it, raising or killing your own food is really one of the most impactful things you can do. If you view any one in a vacuum you'll twist yourself up in knots. Play the long game.
 
buying your plants from the grocery introduces a significant amount of externalities as well. clearing land to grow them, current lack of understanding on plant sentience (now its a party!), disrupting cultures, economies, climates, etc. to grow them, Trucking them, you name it.

Small time farmer and hunter/fisher is your best shot at reduction, unless you take up a career involving said effort. I fully expect to be stopping through ole NB's garden next year......
 
All animals are predator or prey to something else. All animals develop evolutionary traits to give them an edge in this predator/prey relationship. For humans, it's our brain and the ability to discern. We've all passed on deer that we could've shot but didn't for whatever reason. Every year, I have newborn fawn hiding in my yard and marvel at the beauty of nature knowing that I could kill (and eat) it in a few years. Discernment comes with knowing the difference and controlling your predatory instincts, in essence controlling your nature and understanding the implications of acting on it.

Aside from mosquitoes and the errant spider in my daughters room, I choose not to kill unless there's a reason behind it. I'll happily watch a skunk, chipmunk or woodchuck goes about its life in the woods and just as happily kill it if it comes near the buildings. It's not malicious or sociopathic, it's just nature. Even David Attenborough narrated a pod of Orca who chased down a blue whale and its baby, hunted it for hours killing the baby then eating the tongue while wasting the rest. Where these Orca sadistic or were they just being animals?

In not-so-short rambling, I hunt, when allowed, to get back to nature and for food. I'd hate to be shot by an arrow or bullet only to bleed out in fear but then again I'd hate to be hit by a car, chased down by a pack of dogs and ripped apart or suffer through a frigid winter starving on nothing but tree bark or anything else I may find. I choose to only take the most ethical and quick killing shot I can take and pass on "trophies" if I can't make that ethical shot. That's what makes me different from other predators and that's why I have no issue with taking the shot.
 
Philosophically speaking, it would boil down to unnecessary suffering. Since we cannot know all the different paths any given animals' life would take and the many possible fates it could endure should we choose not to kill it in that moment, there is no way to quantify if we are magnifying or reducing its suffering in the grand scheme of things. All we can do is our best to give it a clean, quick death with as little pain and distress as possible.

Personally, I choose to hunt because it is my nature and at the core of what I think it is to be a human. If you choose to stop hunting knowing it as you do with all the facts and experience in hand, I can respect that.

On a related subject, I think that humans suffer far more than other living things since we are sentient and anticipate physical and emotional pain and suffering and relive past pain and suffering through our memories. I believe animals live in the now.
 
SNIPERBBB said:
Most wild animals dont get aneurysms or die in their sleep. Most animals die of long painful deaths from disease or ripped apart and eaten while still alive. Some are even swallowed hole and are still alive when they enter their predator's stomach.

We do what we can to minimize the amount of suffering.

Pretty much all hunters question themselves on this matter at some point.
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pretty much this, most prey animals, like deer, have die a gruesome and horrific death, comparably an arrow through the heart or lungs of a deer leads to a quick death, i have no doubt they feel some pain, but i dont think that they understand what is going on when they die, they bleed out and feel weak, take a rest and die. for the vast majority of their lives they live the normal deer experience, eating, f**king, etc. they are wild animals and get (almost) the full experience of being a wild animal
 
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