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Tree Stand Harness

G

GeoFish

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
2,422
Location
Kentucky
Going to a .75, used either as a saddle platform or as a conventional tree stand.

This has me questioning what type of harness to use in conventional mode. Some guys are using their saddle, a rock-climbing harness or Dryad harness in a tree stand. These will give you a front connection point when used facing away from the stand. But you will also have a similar issue standing on a platform when facing away from the tree. @John RB made a good point of always be prepared in the event of something breaking.
I found this video and it does not look like a front connection point is a good idea to me. I do not like the quality of the product but a harness like the XOP Mondo may be the better choice.

 
BTaylor said:
Curious what influenced your thoughts on front vs. rear connection?
Click to expand...
At the Florida meet up I talked with @always89y and @Fl Canopy Stalker and showed them my Tacti Saddle tree stand harness. They both said that with a front connection at your waist in a tree stand, you would break you back in a hard fall. The video confirms this, IMO. A saddle may cause the same result.
 
Seems like that risk would be directly related to the amount of slack in the system and possible angle of attachment for the tether. Angle of fall seems like it would also come into play, straight down vs off the side of a stand. I'm thinking about the stand breaking like happened to me this year vs. falling off the stand to one side or the other. Maybe they will chime in and add some additional context.
 
I thought that climbing harnesses were way better until @Fl Canopy Stalker made some comments here to the contrary.

I just don't think there is a good solution until someone comes up with a design that won't break your back and whip you around but also allows easy self-rescue and minimizes the chances of suspension trauma. I wouldn't want to use the Wingman with a 5 point harness either because you are relying on a product with some moving parts to always perform properly in all kinds of weather and maybe without constant testing.

This just underlines for me that a saddle used in the traditional way is the safest way to climb a tree and hunt, for me at least.

On early morning, all day rut sits, I have almost fallen asleep several times. Thankfully I've never fallen onto my harness, but I can see that it could easily happen.
 
My belief in the saddle is not based on a large amount of experience or technical knowledge, only my limited experience. I was at hunting height last year while hooked in my tether and slipped off my climbing stick while trying to get around to the other side of the tree to shoot a deer. My tether and saddle did a great job. Wasn't hurt, recovered my position easily and it made me an even bigger believer in this system. The only issue I had was the deer laughed at me and I lost an arrow (I was at full draw when this happened).
 
That video made my brain hurt. A rated climbing harness is going to be superior in every way to a hunting specific harness(including hunt saddles), save weight and noise.

It doesn't matter what harness you have though if you aren't managing slack. You'll break your pelvis and back.

Connection point is irrelevant. Dorsal, sternal and ventral are all acceptable life safety points. Managing slack is key, even more so with static lines
 
In posts from 2021-2022 we covered some of the concerns. As @raisins pointed out falling asleep and slipping off is a concern, so is leaning for a shot and like @BTaylor voiced so is catastrophic failure… issues such as to make an easy transition from sitting to standing, either the tether has to be high and across your body to be tight, or pretty low with a little slack… most would leave it lower and slacked. What no one seems to consider is the whip around effect. That’s when the tether is behind you and you are face forawrd so when the fall occurs the tether tightens and whips the bulk of your body around at the fulcrum point. In this case that would be your back and hips. I’ve witness falls and performed face first drop tests and the sheer force of the whip around is down right scary. The back isn’t made to bend in that direction and applying that force to your lower stomach, sternum and hips is also life threatening. Will it always kill you or break your back? Most likely not but there are many other internal injuries to consider such as ruptured spleen, torn muscles and herniated disc injuries can all result from a whip around fall at much lighter forces… if I personally were going to “hybrid hunt”, my recommendation would be something like the XOP harness with a dorsal attachment that can be used in normal configuration and a second tether ram lower and slacked with the bridge slacked so it could be easily turned and tightened for a saddle situation.
 
TreeRecon said:
That video made my brain hurt. A rated climbing harness is going to be superior in every way to a hunting specific harness(including hunt saddles), save weight and noise.

It doesn't matter what harness you have though if you aren't managing slack. You'll break your pelvis and back.

Connection point is irrelevant. Dorsal, sternal and ventral are all acceptable life safety points. Managing slack is key, even more so with static lines
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I agree with most of this BUT not your view on connection points. Also keep in mind that many FBH have long force reducing rear connections (because it absorbs force), in those cases slack is actually a friend. The connection point is extremely relevant and there is a ton of research and incident reporting that backs up the claim that if you fall, a dorsal connection full body harness will always be the “safest result”. Self rescue is a little different. A chest connection FBH is great if you are facing the tree but has the ability to choke you or worse if you are facing away from the tree like most guys using hang ons… and sternal connections are the worst option for fall arrest and are generally only approved for fall restraint work positioning. The exception being rock climbers who again use incredible lengths of dynamic rope to lessen force
 
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RCH or tactisaddle and manage the slack. I don't want to end up facing away from the tree. If I start to go, I'm already looking for the tree or something to grab.

If I was a big guy or out of shape and couldn't easily lift my own weight, I'd reconsider.
 
kbetts said:
RCH or tactisaddle and manage the slack. I don't want to end up facing away from the tree. If I start to go, I'm already looking for the tree or something to grab.

If I was a big guy or out of shape and couldn't easily lift my own weight, I'd reconsider.
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It seems like you are assuming that you have time to react in an unexpected fall and often that’s not the case…
 
Andrew920 said:
My belief in the saddle is not based on a large amount of experience or technical knowledge, only my limited experience. I was at hunting height last year while hooked in my tether and slipped off my climbing stick while trying to get around to the other side of the tree to shoot a deer. My tether and saddle did a great job. Wasn't hurt, recovered my position easily and it made me an even bigger believer in this system. The only issue I had was the deer laughed at me and I lost an arrow (I was at full draw when this happened).
Click to expand...

I fell so hard on a stick this year that I still have scar tissue in my thigh. However, the saddle performed flawlessly and I was using my tether and my lineman's at the same time. Everything about me was safe except for my leg that came down hard on the stick.
 
raisins said:
I fell so hard on a stick this year that I still have scar tissue in my thigh. However, the saddle performed flawlessly and I was using my tether and my lineman's at the same time. Everything about me was safe except for my leg that came down hard on the stick.
Click to expand...
It happened fast didn’t it? I see a lot of guys watched ol CBI bear’s you tube video about falling in a RCH and in every single example he gave was a no slack expected fall where he could react. Most people don’t have time to react in a fall until after the actual fall has stopped.

I would love to see someone do a video where they are blind folded and sitting on a stand and someone quietly cuts the strap…. While you’re still expecting a fall, you won’t know when it’s happening and that would be way closer to how someone would react in real life. I won’t do it because I like my health but maybe one of these younger and confident you tube guys will give it a go???
 
Also it bears mentioning that the typical rear connection type safety harness while catching you in a fall if you don't have a way to mitigate suspension trauma ( blood pooling in the legs causing unconsciousness) it creates a life threatening situation. I am having a hard time visualizing how such an abundance of slack being introduced into the system. Rock climbing has the shock absorption ability built in by the type of rope used. For our application minimizing slack is paramount. Don't let lack of knowledge outpace the ability to stay safe. Rope access is a dangerous proposition so anything we can do keep that to a minimum is a good deal.
 
GeoFish said:
Going to a .75, used either as a saddle platform or as a conventional tree stand.

This has me questioning what type of harness to use in conventional mode. Some guys are using their saddle, a rock-climbing harness or Dryad harness in a tree stand. These will give you a front connection point when used facing away from the stand. But you will also have a similar issue standing on a platform when facing away from the tree. @John RB made a good point of always be prepared in the event of something breaking.
I found this video and it does not look like a front connection point is a good idea to me. I do not like the quality of the product but a harness like the XOP Mondo may be the better choice.

Click to expand...
No matter the hunting situation, I don't use a Fall Arrest Harness. I use a reputable Saddle in conjunction with a low slack lifeline that gets me to ground in ALL situations including when I have no footing. I was at the Great American Outdoor Show in Harrisburg PA a few weeks ago. I got a chance to meet so many hunters and equipment suppliers. I asked this question to everyone I encountered who uses or sells a conventional fall arrest harness: "What do you do to self recover when you have fallen into your FAH and you can't get your feet back on a step or stand because it's gone?" Most hadn't considered it. But the only viable answer was: Call in for a rescue and HOPE your able to maintain blood circulation in your legs with a suspension relief strap while waiting. Unfortunately, FAH systems are only designed to prevent a fall and were NOT designed for self rescue after loss of footing. We need both. We have both in a saddle which is always tied to the tree and on minimum slack. Even when using a ladder stand.


JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
It seems like you are assuming that you have time to react in an unexpected fall and often that’s not the case…
Click to expand...
Completely agree. If you get off balance and start to fall, sure there is at least some time react. When the cable broke on the stand I was on this year there was no warning and less than no time to react to it.
 
cedar paul said:
Also it bears mentioning that the typical rear connection type safety harness while catching you in a fall if you don't have a way to mitigate suspension trauma ( blood pooling in the legs causing unconsciousness) it creates a life threatening situation. I am having a hard time visualizing how such an abundance of slack being introduced into the system. Rock climbing has the shock absorption ability built in by the type of rope used. For our application minimizing slack is paramount. Don't let lack of knowledge outpace the ability to stay safe. Rope access is a dangerous proposition so anything we can do keep that to a minimum is a good deal.
Click to expand...
All of this 100%!!!
 
John RB said:
No matter the hunting situation, I don't use a Fall Arrest Harness. I use a reputable Saddle in conjunction with a low slack lifeline that gets me to ground in ALL situations including when I have no footing. I was at the Great American Outdoor Show in Harrisburg PA a few weeks ago. I got a chance to meet so many hunters and equipment suppliers. I asked this question to everyone I encountered who uses or sells a conventional fall arrest harness: "What do you do to self recover when you have fallen into your FAH and you can't get your feet back on a step or stand because it's gone?" Most hadn't considered it. But the only viable answer was: Call in for a rescue and HOPE your able to maintain blood circulation in your legs with a suspension relief strap while waiting. Unfortunately, FAH systems are only designed to prevent a fall and were NOT designed for self rescue after loss of footing. We need both. We have both in a saddle which is always tied to the tree and on minimum slack. Even when using a ladder stand.


JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
Click to expand...
John every single fall arrest harness comes with a recovery strap which gives the ability to place it under your foot and stand up for brief intervals to help stop suspension trauma. The greater issue is most people don’t practice self recovery. When I bring this up, I always hear well what if you go unconscious then you hang til you’re dead… I offer the exact same statement about a saddle. If you fell and hit your head or became unconscious for whatever reason in a saddle, there is a high high likeliness of you either going inverted which is one of the most dangerous things that can happen at height, or slipping until your leg straps became weight bearing for a long enough time to also cause suspension trauma).
For that matter guys in FBH can use that self lowering tool on a stand and it would slowly lower them to the ground after a fall…
 
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