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What do you consider an acceptable 40yard group to feel confident on an animal.

L

Lcoop

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
48
Location
South Ga
I know it will vary per situation and person, but for you is it baseball sized groups, softball, paper plate? what is considered a "good" group at 40?
 
For me I'll shoot at a deer 10 yards closer than I can consistently shoot inside a softball. Last year that was 25-30 yards (40 on range), this year it may be slightly longer.

It's going to be a personal decision though to an extent. One thing I saw on here recently that I'll be doing more of is do like 15 pushups or 20 jumping jacks right before shooting (at the range) to mimic the adrenaline rush when you see a big buck. It certainly makes it harder/more fun at the range for me

Edited to add: just proved to myself that the above ranges are without the pushups. pushups make my softball into a pie plate +1 we won't mention... so looks like I'm not expanding the range any time soon, more practice needed.
 
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For me it would have to be a 30-06 to shoot 40 lol. I think thedutchtouch's guideline is pretty sound, inside a softball from a saddle from weird positions with an elevated heartbeat. Generally, whatever group I am shooting at home I can just about double that size under field conditions.
 
My dad used to tell me you need to hit 9 out of 10 in a pie plate (10-ish inches) from a given range during practice to consider yourself effective at that range in the field. I think that's a pretty good standard for basic proficiency at shorter ranges, but I feel like that should shrink down to 5-6" past 35 yards since your margin of error is smaller the longer the arrow is in flight.
And to be clear, these standards assume you're shooting broadheads during practice, not field points. Lots of fellas out there who can shoot a softball group at 40 yards with field points, but when they screw on their big fixed blade heads, that opens up to a 12"+ group because their bow (or arrow) isn't tuned to perfection.
 
How big is the animal? Seriously my point on is 40 so I would feel confident hitting a pie plate or 9" circle target at that distance. If the situation was right I would take that shot on game but it would have to be the absolutely perfect scenario. 25 or less would be much preferred and about 15-18 is my happy spot.
 
I say for deer size animal, softball group 70-90% and your fliers hit a pie plate, you are within your effective range. I think consideration of not just what constitutes a group, but how bad are your misses is an important factor frequently missing from this discussion. I've seen some people in mentoring hunters where they'll zip in decent "groups" but their misses would be wildly bad misses. Reigning in those fliers fairly close to your group is important to work at. It's like in pitching the distinction between a harmless wasted pitch and a wild pitch advancing the baserunners, except life and death consequences.

Consistency from day to day also. I used to work on longer range shooting a lot more prepping for elk hunts B.P. (Before Procreating) and I would have days where I would be dead nuts at 70-100 yards and feel like I could reach out there like Cam Jesus Hanes and days where it was a struggle that would bring me back to earth. Don't go out there and shoot the best round of your life and feel your can stretch the field, you need to repeat that several times.
 
I got to where I could hit softball size 9 of 10 shots out to 50-60 yards. Oh I was full of confidence when season started. Problem was that all my shots in the field were 15 yards and in cuz Tennessee is so dang thick in the early bow season. So last day of bow before the muzzle loader opener, now that leaves are falling, I see a big fat doe at a hair over 40 yards. I decided to take the shot but I second guessed my aim a little cuz it had now been 2 solid months since I was practicing all my distance shots. hit her way to high. tracked for 300 yards several hours way into the wee hours and finally lost blood and had to throw in the towel. Pretty sure hit her high enough that she would recover form that wound but it was not fun. Point is: once you establish your acceptable group size, make sure you're still practicing throughout your season so when the time comes, you won't second guess your aim on that long shot.
 
I can tell you I've killed 50 deer to the best of my knowledge. Probably half as many hogs. About half of those animals I'd guess we're killed with an arrow. Either a compound bow or a crossbow.

So call it 30-40 bow kills on deer-sized game. I can recall 1 for sure that was close to 30 yards. I'll say maybe 5 or so were maybe 25ish. I've shot 2 at 40. Killed one, clean missed another.

I used to could shoot out to 100 yards and keep arrows on the torso of a 3D deer. I could hit squirrels regularly out to 30 yards off of a bird feeder in my yard. I practiced too much. And with a crossbow, I am boringly accurate at 40 yards. Golfball groups.

After flinging arrows at deer and working in an archery shop for 5 or so years, and after talking to lots of people (BSers and straight shooters), I've come to the conclusion that throwing arrows at deer further than 30 yards away in the woods is a crapshoot. I know my gear. I have killed enough deer and hogs and small game and fowl and cockroaches that I'm pretty cold-blooded. But stuff gets real squirrelly real fast with moving targets and a 200-400fps projectile. There are just too many variables outside of your control, and too many "controllable" ones to keep track of in go-time mode.
 
Depends on alot, but mostly about angles for me. Some shots give you much more vital area to shoot at.
 
watch some videos of whitetail deer ducking at 40 and youll think twice about it. It all depends on the deer. i have farmed it on just as many shots as ive killed. I can shoot honest 2in groups at 40 when im practicing and calm and warmed up etc., but i will almost never take that shot anymore. It easily turns into 6 or 7in groups at a deer for me, probably worse. partly because the deer moving, partly because i suck in the moment.

The new crossbows can def shoot 40 but theyre going almost twice as fast as my compound and easy to shoot even out to 60-70 on a target.
 
elk yinzer said:
I say for deer size animal, softball group 70-90% and your fliers hit a pie plate, you are within your effective range. I think consideration of not just what constitutes a group, but how bad are your misses is an important factor frequently missing from this discussion. I've seen some people in mentoring hunters where they'll zip in decent "groups" but their misses would be wildly bad misses. Reigning in those fliers fairly close to your group is important to work at. It's like in pitching the distinction between a harmless wasted pitch and a wild pitch advancing the baserunners, except life and death consequences.

Consistency from day to day also. I used to work on longer range shooting a lot more prepping for elk hunts B.P. (Before Procreating) and I would have days where I would be dead nuts at 70-100 yards and feel like I could reach out there like Cam Jesus Hanes and days where it was a struggle that would bring me back to earth. Don't go out there and shoot the best round of your life and feel your can stretch the field, you need to repeat that several times.
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I would take that one step further and say once you are confidently shooting good groups with small misses, change you routine and go to one shot cold bore practice at various distances over a week or 3. I have killed a few deer over the years with the second arrow but 99% of the time, the fisrt cold shot is the one that has to count.
 
BTaylor said:
I would take that one step further and say once you are confidently shooting good groups with small misses, change you routine and go to one shot cold bore practice at various distances over a week or 3. I have killed a few deer over the years with the second arrow but 99% of the time, the fisrt cold shot is the one that has to count.
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^^THIS^^
 
Beat me to it @Nutterbuster. I have to admit I've taken some 40yd shots in my past and even connected on a few. But that was before I considered the time it takes an arrow to cover that distance. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the ethics police or trying to say what you should or shouldn't do. I also agree everything is situational but for me personally I see too much risk in long distance archery shots. I limit myself to 30 yds these days (and that's probably longer than I would like).

Just for clarities sake I'll back up my stance with some hard numbers (I know, I've posted these before but I think its worth repeating). Let's say you're shooting a smoking 400fps arrow at a deer standing 40yds (120 ft) away. It will take 0.3 seconds for the arrow to cover that distance. That sounds like (and feels like it when shooting) an incredibly short time. The problem is, in reality, its not. Forget about jumping the string, standing vs walking, alert or not . . . just consider it in terms of how much something can move in that amount of time. If you're walking at the very leisurely pace of 2mph (approx. 3 ft/sec) in 0.3 seconds you will travel 0.9 ft.

In other words if, if your target even moves leisurely the softball size group you're aiming at has moved almost a full foot by the time your arrow gets there. And that's at 400fps. In the same situation with my measly slow 260 fps compound my softball has moved better than 16inches. For me its just too much delay to impact and too much that can possibly change.
 
100% agree that the tech has now proliferated a misguided culture of longer range expectations. That’s a living creature on the other end. But back to the point, let’s also try some fixed blades and see what those groups like, especially as you ever so slightly compromise your form, and even maybe shoot some groups from 20’ up.
 
I past on anything further than 25 yards . Shot one at 38 yards when I was younger ,liver hit found it the next day . I think he moved a step when I released but either way I screwed up. Never want to do the tracking all night and most of the day thing if I can avoid it . Good luck
 
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