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What makes you safe.

sdoyle1 said:
This is definitely true. I’ve seen people suggest some terrible ideas online. Not just this group but others as well. One prime example was this morning on a deer processing group. There were several people arguing that it works perfectly fine water bathing canned venison. They were adamant they’d been doing that for years and that proved it was perfectly safe. It seems crazy to me that people would argue against safety guidelines and suggest this to a bunch of strangers online. Botulism is no joke.
We live in a world with all this information at our fingertips. I’m in a tree hunting as I type this and I’m still able to access info online. I believe when it comes to something new we owe it to ourselves to research it extensively to understand the risks and what steps must be taken to do it safely.


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Another great reminder to not trust other people's canning...
 
sdoyle1 said:
This is definitely true. I’ve seen people suggest some terrible ideas online. Not just this group but others as well. One prime example was this morning on a deer processing group. There were several people arguing that it works perfectly fine water bathing canned venison. They were adamant they’d been doing that for years and that proved it was perfectly safe. It seems crazy to me that people would argue against safety guidelines and suggest this to a bunch of strangers online. Botulism is no joke.
We live in a world with all this information at our fingertips. I’m in a tree hunting as I type this and I’m still able to access info online. I believe when it comes to something new we owe it to ourselves to research it extensively to understand the risks and what steps must be taken to do it safely.


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Terrible ideas don't worry me. They're usually pretty easy to spot.

It's apparently harmless or decent ideas, from people who appear to be competent and experienced, that will kill people.
 
CooterBrown said:
Ol' but its so much fun going somewhere everybody else is going.
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As long as you ain't at the front when the herd hits the cliff!

I don't wanna hate on the folks on here. Y'all are pretty much the only friends I got that aren't blood. I think all in all folks are pretty conservative when it comes to safety. But "feeling safe" and being safe are two different beasts. One is intuition and inescapably limited personal experience, and the other is adherence to commonly agreed upon guidelines developed by folks with LOTS of experience and the knowledge that all you're doing by adhering to them is changing the percentage of risk you acrue when your feeties leave the ground. Start "feeling" safe and you may end up feeling a rib in your lung. Or not feeling your legs.
 
I tell everyone who asks me for info about one sticking or rappelling to developer a process and then follow that process every single time they climb until it’s ingrained. 20’ off the ground is not the place for second guessing or forgetting a step.

The actions are the same whether you’re one stick move high or 5 stick moves high so I tell them to make one stick move and rappel down. Do it over and over under your process is set in stone. Then add a second stick move and do it multiple times as well. There’s zero shame in practicing in your yard. Zero.
 
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I was supposed to be disabled by now according to a few folks on this forum. I've learned a lot in a year.
 
Keeping it simple, slowing down (don't panic because the sun is rising and you aren't ready to hunt yet), and situational awareness.....and probably discipline. Being a risk-taker is often a form of a lack of discipline.

I was in a tree 3 days ago. I hear a loud cracking. 15 feet behind me, a living tree has a very large dead branch. It falls on the other side of me. That branch was large enough to seriously injure me. I'll take it as a free lesson.

I did make sure that my tree was safe (in isolation). But I have hunted right next to dead trees before (lack of discipline). I didn't even notice that dead branch (lack of situational awareness). Let's say I find a perfect spot, but the only climbable tree is right next to a dead tree with no cover if that dead tree fell in the wind. I probably should have the discipline to not hunt that spot. What people call bravery (and is often admired) is often just not having full control of your emotions and being able to make the right decision based upon principles you have defined before the situation.
 
bj139 said:
I never add backups just to throw more equipment in the system. I recently removed a carabiner from my system and made 1 do the work of 3 carabiners. If that one carabiner fails, which is unlikely, I will fall to the ground. I am going to add a carabiner back for redundancy. If this reasoning is wrong then I don't care. I will add it anyway since is it is my life I am trying to protect.
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I hunted today and added back the silver carabiner. If the black carabiner fails, the silver one will catch my fall.
 
bj139 said:
I hunted today and added back the silver carabiner. If the black carabiner fails, the silver one will catch my fall.
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Actually it won't. You have the wire gate biner "back clipped" meaning the sling will land on the non-locking gate, and open the biner and the sling will come right out....not that the Metolius locker is going to fail. But....

Gate and spine orientation matters.
 
Vtbow said:
Actually it won't. You have the wire gate biner "back clipped" meaning the sling will land on the non-locking gate, and open the biner and the sling will come right out....not that the Metolius locker is going to fail. But....

Gate and spine orientation matters.
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So, you think I need a locking carabiner there? BTW, the carabiner is free floating and would rotate and catch me.
 
bj139 said:
So, you think I need a locking carabiner there? BTW, the carabiner is free floating and would rotate and catch me.
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IF you put a carabiner there...my take is that it should be locking.
 
bj139 said:
So, you think I need a locking carabiner there? BTW, the carabiner is free floating and would rotate and catch me.
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Not necessarily. The biner should be clipped through that loop coming from your body so the spine is facing you. Backclipping is real. And people get hurt doing it sport climbing often....

And no, locker not needed of clipped in correctly.
 
bj139 said:
The next time I'm out I will move the ascender up quickly and see if it rotates and catches or unclips.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's just clipped in wrong period. It may not happen every time, but accidents have happened that way....that's why it's considered wrong.. there's a lot going on in front of you and simply clippimg it in the correct direction would fix the issue.
 
Vtbow said:
Not necessarily. The biner should be clipped through that loop coming from your body so the spine is facing you. Backclipping is real. And people get hurt doing it sport climbing often....

And no, locker not needed of clipped in correctly.
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If the carabiner is rotated you can see the spine DOES face me without unclipping anything. So, I do have it right.
 
Vtbow said:
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's just clipped in wrong period. It may not happen every time, but accidents have happened that way....that's why it's considered wrong.. there's a lot going on in front of you and simply clippimg it in the correct direction would fix the issue.
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Vtbow.....does this concept apply to clipping your tether into your bridge or clipping your lineman's lanyard to your saddle loops?
 
bj139 said:
The next time I'm out I will move the ascender up quickly and see if it rotates and catches or unclips.
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I wouldn't try this by experiment because those are just anecdotes. I would listen to the trained climber who understands it based upon first principles. I bet you have a locking 'biner laying around anyways.
 
raisins said:
I wouldn't try this by experiment because those are just anecdotes. I would listen to the trained climber who understands it based upon first principles. I bet you have a locking 'biner laying around anyways.
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This a backup to my backup. Most people don't do this at all. It WILL be safe.
 
Vtbow said:
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's just clipped in wrong period. It may not happen every time, but accidents have happened that way....that's why it's considered wrong.. there's a lot going on in front of you and simply clippimg it in the correct direction would fix the issue.
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It IS clipped in the right direction. Look at the picture. At least in the direction you stated.
 
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