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Who Did Not Snort the Fairy Dust? And Why?

I should read some of the heavy arrow threads but when I first saw them I thought, "Oh great, now I have to compensate for a banana trajectory and may not even hit the deer at all".
 
i think the greatest thing that the heavy arrow movement has done is getting guys to even remotely tune their arrow. With all the gadgets and adjustments on modern compounds most of the focus goes into tuning the bow not the arrow. For traditional archery you (mainly) have your form and your arrow. Traditional archers have been tuning there arrows for years. It’s a little more critical for traditional archers shooting from the shelf but the concepts are the same. This movement has gotten people bareshafting there arrows to tune of a straight flying arrow. One thing the weight does is make is easier in a sense to tune the arrow if you are over spined. The other way would be shortening your arrow. Since many people don’t have access to a saw, simply adding a bunch of weight will have a similar affect. If you haven’t before, rip the vanes off your current bow and see how straight it flys. If you’re not getting much kick out left or right then your arrow is pretty well tuned for your set up. I think most spine calculators will get you really close for modern bow set ups. I think this is very important. Im not against the heavy arrow set ups, I just don’t think they are required to have good kill percentages on deer.
 
Because I'm hunting deer, not Cape Buffalo like Dr. Ashby.

Because I get passthroughs with my current setup.

Because I've just never had a shoulder get in the way of the good stuff.

Because the stuff I buy is available cheaply and readily at any archery shop in the US, and I have a lot of it stockpiled from when I'd snap it up during clearance sales with my employee discount.

Because as nice as momentum is, trajectory is nice too.

Because saddle hunting has reminded me how much I dislike hype trains.

Because advocates preaching physics to me after I spent 5 years doing the stuff 40 hours a week irritates me, and I'm a stubborn person.

Because I'd rather rather drink used motor oil than have to sit through a ranch fairy video.

If the average guy is shooting an average bow loaded with an average arrow at an average deer...on average the average guy is the weak link. My paycheck depended on guys screwing up and then looking for gear to blame.

.270 or .308 or 30-06? Who cares, they will all kill the deer more times than they won't. Same with modern archery tackle.
 
tyson12590 said:
3) The Fairy movement combines 2 different topics into one. Heavy High FOC Arrows and Cut on Contact quality broadheads. I personally believe that many whitetail hunters would be really happy if the moved to a heavy 550 grain arrow and still shot a big expandable. Better penetration with massive cutting. I suspect that many of the deflection issues would also improve.
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I'm likely going to be happy. My arrow is only 506, but I currently plan to stick with Rage for that massive wound channel. Been shooting them for over a decade and have no issue staying away from the heavy bone in shoulder.
 
I am interested in moving to heavier arrows. However, depending how soon I can get arrows and a field point kit to test out before the season, ill probably stick with my twizzlers. All the deer ive hit with twizzlers broadside and hitting vitals ive been able to successfully harvest. Its those weird angles where you don't get a broadside shot that im worried about.
 
I don't know anything about RF or Dr. Ashby, but I've been shooting heavyish (529 grain) arrows since I started archery and saddle hunting 8 years ago. It just made sense to me. Like getting hit with a baseball vs a tennis ball (motorcycle vs train) etc... However, I don't believe that weight is the biggest contributing factor. I believe having cut on contact broad heads is much more important for overall penetration compared to just arrow weight. Those mechanical broad heads might open a large wound channel but need a ton of energy to be able to penetrate or passthrough compared to cut on contact. Lastly, I think the most important aspect of a setup is confidence. The last thing I want going through my mind is whether or not I can put the arrow where I want to or if it'll do its job.
 
Gator said:
haha, NO. But I bet it's fast!
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I measured it with field points from my Hickory Creek Mini crossbow at 295 fps with the limb bolts turned out 2 full turns. I shot a deer through light brush about 30 yards away and it penetrated both sides and I found it about 15 yards down the trail. It was enough.
 
In 2018 I switched from a Matthews compound with a Rage to a Recurve with a magnus stinger. I shot 3 deer that year and was very surprised with the lack of blood trails.(All double lung hits) My traditional archery mentor just told me that I was used to rage blood trails and 2 blade COC just don't produce like that. I've come to accept that reality now but there are gonna be a bunch of guys this fall that made the switch to COC 2 blades that will be singing the blood trail blues. It may be a worthy trade off (and I think it is) but I suspect many guys are not ready for that change.
 
My old 385 grain arrows with Rage used to blow right through deer all the time. Every now and then one would get hung up on the back side but I still had already done all the damage needed. I've never had one not make it far enough through to only punch one lung for instance. It's definitely easier to punch a little hole with a COC than to push a big 2" expandable through but I like the big holes. Don't like expandables, shoot a RamCat that are huge and already open.
 
tyson12590 said:
In 2018 I switched from a Matthews compound with a Rage to a Recurve with a magnus stinger. I shot 3 deer that year and was very surprised with the lack of blood trails.(All double lung hits) My traditional archery mentor just told me that I was used to rage blood trails and 2 blade COC just don't produce like that. I've come to accept that reality now but there are gonna be a bunch of guys this fall that made the switch to COC 2 blades that will be singing the blood trail blues. It may be a worthy trade off (and I think it is) but I suspect many guys are not ready for that change.
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I think height of exit wound plays a huge part in crazy blood trails....... but I get ya.
 
I don't think one should discount the economic factors of playing with heavier arrows either. Stiffer shafts, more components, heavier broadheads all = more $$$.

Not to tell anyone how to spend their money, but I look at it as another way guys try to buy success in hunting. Which is something i've definitely been guilty of early in my hunting career, but you don't necessarily need to spend all that money on a heavier arrow to be more successful. Considering the arrow doesn't scout for you, prep your trees, buy your tags, gut your deer, grind your meat.... Such a small part of the equation to be spending a disproportionate amount of money on IMO.

Of course if you just like tinkering with stuff that's different... but I would just caution against getting caught up in the game of trying to buy success in hunting.
 
CamoMan said:
I don't know anything about RF or Dr. Ashby, but I've been shooting heavyish (529 grain) arrows since I started archery and saddle hunting 8 years ago. It just made sense to me. Like getting hit with a baseball vs a tennis ball (motorcycle vs train) etc... However, I don't believe that weight is the biggest contributing factor. I believe having cut on contact broad heads is much more important for overall penetration compared to just arrow weight. Those mechanical broad heads might open a large wound channel but need a ton of energy to be able to penetrate or passthrough compared to cut on contact. Lastly, I think the most important aspect of a setup is confidence. The last thing I want going through my mind is whether or not I can put the arrow where I want to or if it'll do its job.
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Agree whole heartily! A buddy of mine shooting a newer set up......rage expandable (not bashing) shot a decent buck and encountered the shoulder and got 5in penetration. 1 lung = not a recovery. Ergo.... this year he's changing his setup to cut on contact broadhead and sharpening himself. Not sure about arrows. But, I know that shots in the ribs will kill deer with most setups but......animals can and will move and when jacked up on adrenaline we can make shots of the mark. COC broadhead and beefier setups do give some leeway for variables. You may not need a little wiggle room .....I want it. I still get tore up....LOL
 
d_rek said:
I don't think one should discount the economic factors of playing with heavier arrows either. Stiffer shafts, more components, heavier broadheads all = more $$$.
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Do stiffer shafts cost more?
More components?
Heavier broadhead cost about the same amount as mech heads unless u are buying the high end stuff.....i just got 3 175gr heads for 15 dollars......on the flip side....the high end broadheads will last your whole lifetime and in theory u never buy broadheads again. If I had all the money back from all the cheap broadheads i bought i could get the nice 1s but i didnt know any better. Hindsight i wish i got so real high end heads to begin with.
 
A lot of people are over-complicating this, I think. Use an arrow with the correct spine for your bow/poundage. Find a broadhead that shoots well out of your bow, screw it on, and go hunting. Take ethical shots, hit them where you're supposed to, and they will go down.

I am not changing a thing with my arrows because what I have now works. I started using Swhacker broadheads a couple years ago because I didn't like the way the old tried and true Muzzy 3 blade was flying out of my newer, faster bow. I know a lot of folks think these things are junk and rip on them because of their marketing or whatever. My experience with these has been great so far.

The blood trails have actually been pretty bad, but that's only because the deer that I have killed with them died so fast, they literally didn't have a chance to start bleeding. I am talking like, 50 yards or less and DOWN. I practically have to scoop the lungs out with a ladle. Here are 3 exit holes I've had with my current arrow setup and Swhacker head. (Note: "Your mileage may vary")

1596122582378.png

1596122725315.png

1596122839964.png

Why would I change? Oh, and here's the latest track job I had last October. Hmm, I wonder where he went... :D
1596122973253.png
 
Weldabeast said:
Do stiffer shafts cost more?
More components?
Heavier broadhead cost about the same amount as mech heads unless u are buying the high end stuff.....i just got 3 175gr heads for 15 dollars......on the flip side....the high end broadheads will last your whole lifetime and in theory u never buy broadheads again. If I had all the money back from all the cheap broadheads i bought i could get the nice 1s but i didnt know any better. Hindsight i wish i got so real high end heads to begin with.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they cost more/less than weaker shafts, just that you have to spend the money on new shafts to begin with. Objectively, heavy arrows generally use more components which are typically both more costly and an additional expense(heavier inserts, insert weights), so the argument still stands. However the irony of arguing about spending money on the saddlehunter forum is not lost on me :D

Quality of components is a different argument altogether.
 
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