Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

[Zero One Actual]

So here’s a question, I got my test kit. I shot most of the combinations, made some adjustments to my bow after some diagonal tears about 2 1/2”-3” long. Raised my rest up, started shooting the 250 spine with the 200 grain point and started getting bullet holes through newspaper. I was torquing my hand ever so slightly causing some horizontal right tears. Once I got that figured out my arrow holes were getting smaller even on the other spines and point weights. So far the clear cut winner was the 250 spine 200 grain point weight. I will do more testing but I didn’t realize how out of whack my bow was before. Now…my question is after all that, I haven’t had a new string on my bow in probably 3 years. Do I bite the bullet and just get it tuned and new string now or should I just keep what I got. I haven’t ordered any arrows and just sort of tinkering now. Thoughts?

Yes. Do it. You are taking the time to do every thing else right. May as well start fresh. Otherwise it will keep you up at night. Ask me how I know.

 

[Red Beard]

So here’s a question, I got my test kit. I shot most of the combinations, made some adjustments to my bow after some diagonal tears about 2 1/2”-3” long. Raised my rest up, started shooting the 250 spine with the 200 grain point and started getting bullet holes through newspaper. I was torquing my hand ever so slightly causing some horizontal right tears. Once I got that figured out my arrow holes were getting smaller even on the other spines and point weights. So far the clear cut winner was the 250 spine 200 grain point weight. I will do more testing but I didn’t realize how out of whack my bow was before. Now…my question is after all that, I haven’t had a new string on my bow in probably 3 years. Do I bite the bullet and just get it tuned and new string now or should I just keep what I got. I haven’t ordered any arrows and just sort of tinkering now. Thoughts?

Like @Zero One Actual I am a proponent of changing it now. Once you finalize the timing and your setup is a laser, you're not going to want to mess with anything on it again.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Like @Zero One Actual I am a proponent of changing it now. Once you finalize the timing and your setup is a laser, you're not going to want to mess with anything on it again.

Surprisingly it didn’t take long once I figured out the arrow rest thing. Started shooting the 250 spine/200 grain and I got a bullet hole, shot again and same result, shot a few more times and more consistent bullet holes or very small tears. I’d like for them to at least check it out and see if I need a new string.

 

[waltholmes5]

Happy new years everyone! Just finished skimming through this thread which took a bit, personally have been considering picking up the Grizzlystik Ashby 650 kit. I've also got a few questions for both sides of this conversation:

1: What is your weight/arrow setup? Using that setup what is your point of aim for quartering to, perfect broadside and quartering away?

• All of us in this forum are already more involved and put more effort in than most. Many people just want a plug and play setup that in their mind will just work until it's time for firearms season. Which sadly leads to a lot of deer fatally or non fatally wounded with bad, unethical shots; either thinking they can shoot a deer at 80 yards because they did on the target the other day or they go point of the shoulder with a 300gr mechanical setup going 350fps.

2: I don't like the golf/ping pong ball analogy. I think referring to rifle calibers makes a bit more sense. Let's call the ~300s a 22-250, ~400s a .243/6.5, ~500s .270/30-06 and ~600+ the large magnums.

• All 4 of these can kill a Whitetail with proper shot placement, no question. Yet, if you drew an Elk tag you're probably going to take the Magnum every time, even though under the right conditions the others could fill your tag. Is the Magnum overkill on your average Whitetail? Probably. Unlike a magnum caliber rifle where ballistic results emphasize the overkill, an arrow cuts the same way no matter the weight.

3: Looking at the Ashby Factors, Arrow-Mass above Heavy Bone threshold (650gr with a Single bevel) is all the way down at #12 EXCEPT when heavy bone is encountered, at which point it becomes #3 (this is from Dr Ashby himself).

• I'm not a perfect shot with a rifle, where the deer has no opportunity to react, so how can I expect to be with a bow. Instead I'd rather be able to aim directly for the most important vitals and not be concerned about the perfect angle, the scapula or ribs.
• For the 12 factors as a whole, they're a guideline for good penetration, the more of them you are able to have the better. For those of you who have or haven't watched Troy (the Ranch Fairy) he may strongly suggest being above the heavy bone threshold aka an Adult arrow, but he'll also tell you to prioritize structural integrity and perfect arrow flight and if thats 550 then you should shoot 550 or try building on a different arrow.

 

[Horn]

Happy new years everyone! Just finished skimming through this thread which took a bit, personally have been considering picking up the Grizzlystik Ashby 650 kit. I've also got a few questions for both sides of this conversation:

1: What is your weight/arrow setup? Using that setup what is your point of aim for quartering to, perfect broadside and quartering away?

• All of us in this forum are already more involved and put more effort in than most. Many people just want a plug and play setup that in their mind will just work until it's time for firearms season. Which sadly leads to a lot of deer fatally or non fatally wounded with bad, unethical shots; either thinking they can shoot a deer at 80 yards because they did on the target the other day or they go point of the shoulder with a 300gr mechanical setup going 350fps.

2: I don't like the golf/ping pong ball analogy. I think referring to rifle calibers makes a bit more sense. Let's call the ~300s a 22-250, ~400s a .243/6.5, ~500s .270/30-06 and ~600+ the large magnums.

• All 4 of these can kill a Whitetail with proper shot placement, no question. Yet, if you drew an Elk tag you're probably going to take the Magnum every time, even though under the right conditions the others could fill your tag. Is the Magnum overkill on your average Whitetail? Probably. Unlike a magnum caliber rifle where ballistic results emphasize the overkill, an arrow cuts the same way no matter the weight.

3: Looking at the Ashby Factors, Arrow-Mass above Heavy Bone threshold (650gr with a Single bevel) is all the way down at #12 EXCEPT when heavy bone is encountered, at which point it becomes #3 (this is from Dr Ashby himself).

• I'm not a perfect shot with a rifle, where the deer has no opportunity to react, so how can I expect to be with a bow. Instead I'd rather be able to aim directly for the most important vitals and not be concerned about the perfect angle, the scapula or ribs.
• For the 12 factors as a whole, they're a guideline for good penetration, the more of them you are able to have the better. For those of you who have or haven't watched Troy (the Ranch Fairy) he may strongly suggest being above the heavy bone threshold aka an Adult arrow, but he'll also tell you to prioritize structural integrity and perfect arrow flight and if thats 550 then you should shoot 550 or try building on a different arrow.

Why would POA change?

 

[waltholmes5]

Why would POA change?

If you're confident in your penetration and ability to break bone you can aim directly for the heart instead of in the crease.

 

[Horn]

If you're confident in your penetration and ability to break bone you can aim directly for the heart instead of in the crease.

I want to preface this response by letting you know I'm an extremely inexperienced hunter.

Most hunters I see that advocate for or follow the Ashby recipe due so as more of an insurance policy. In the event they hit heavy bone, they have better chances of getting penetration to get the ethical kill. I myself take this position, heavy as possible and as much foc as you can get with an acceptable trajectory but I wouldn't change the shots I take. Tough shots are tough shots. Avoid bone if you can.

There are definitely advantages to high FOC and/or heavier arrows. There are definitely draw backs to those same arrows.

I do hope I'm not misinterpreting you, and I'm in no way trying to call you out or shame you in any way whatsoever. Ilook forward to further conversation

 

[Weldabeast]

There are definitely advantages to high FOC and/or heavier arrows. There are definitely draw backs to those same arrows.

What draw backs?

 

[waltholmes5]

I want to preface this response by letting you know I'm an extremely inexperienced hunter.

Most hunters I see that advocate for or follow the Ashby recipe due so as more of an insurance policy. In the event they hit heavy bone, they have better chances of getting penetration to get the ethical kill. I myself take this position, heavy as possible and as much foc as you can get with an acceptable trajectory but I wouldn't change the shots I take. Tough shots are tough shots. Avoid bone if you can.

There are definitely advantages to high FOC and/or heavier arrows. There are definitely draw backs to those same arrows.

I do hope I'm not misinterpreting you, and I'm in no way trying to call you out or shame you in any way whatsoever. Ilook forward to further conversation

I believe Troy/Ranch Fairy calls it the "vital V", you aren't aiming for bone but when looking at margin of error I'd rather hit bone and still be in the lung/heart/major vessels than back in the liver/guys.

 

[Horn]

What draw backs?

I would say mostly speed/trajectory/forgiveness. I'm not blessed with height and long arms. I do think in most bow hunting situations ( east of tge Mississippi) the drawbacks are fairly easily overcome


BTW I love your new avatar! Can't even remember the old one. Just that quick but the new one is a smile inducing winner

 

[Jimdude]

I want to preface this response by letting you know I'm an extremely inexperienced hunter.

Most hunters I see that advocate for or follow the Ashby recipe due so as more of an insurance policy. In the event they hit heavy bone, they have better chances of getting penetration to get the ethical kill. I myself take this position, heavy as possible and as much foc as you can get with an acceptable trajectory but I wouldn't change the shots I take. Tough shots are tough shots. Avoid bone if you can.

There are definitely advantages to high FOC and/or heavier arrows. There are definitely draw backs to those same arrows.

I do hope I'm not misinterpreting you, and I'm in no way trying to call you out or shame you in any way whatsoever. Ilook forward to further conversation

I think what Horn was saying here is, don’t purposely aim at a bone because the vitals are behind it at the moment. There is no guarantee the arrow will go through the bone and hit the vitals. But to still take the ethical shots and the heavy arrow is extra insurance that “may help” if you hit bone.

 

[Horn]

I believe Troy/Ranch Fairy calls it the "vital V", you aren't aiming for bone but when looking at margin of error I'd rather hit bone and still be in the lung/heart/major vessels than back in the liver/guys.

I do think I misinterpreted what you were getting at, I apologize for that

 

[waltholmes5]

What draw backs?

"But my pin gap"

 

[waltholmes5]

I think what Horn was saying here is, don’t purposely aim at a bone because the vitals are behind it at the moment. There is no guarantee the arrow will go through the bone and hit the vitals. But to still take the ethical shots and the heavy arrow is extra insurance that “may help” if you hit bone.

If I have the buck of a lifetime and my one shot opportunity is quartering to, I want to feel comfortable in taking that if I have to.

 

[Jimdude]

"But my pin gap"

I do consider that a draw back myself. If the heavy arrow setup is for close combat 25 yards and in, it’s a non issue. I took my 530 grain arrows to a 3D shoot and realized at 40,50,&60 there is no room for error. If it ranged at 63 the 60 pin was NO GOOD lol.

 

[Jimdude]

If I have the buck of a lifetime and my one shot opportunity is quartering to, I want to feel comfortable in taking that if I have to.

I wouldn’t put that much confidence in heavy arrows.

 

[Weldabeast]

I wouldn’t put that much confidence in heavy arrows.

Why not?

 

[Jimdude]

Why not?

Just my personal opinion. They are for when things don’t go as planned. Not for planning bad things. I have seen plenty of videos of heavy bone breached, but who is going to show a video of it not working? Bone not penetrated….
When I accidentally hit and break heavy bone, maybe I’ll reconsider my opinion about it, but as of now I’m sticking with ethical shots. I quit bow hunting at 16 after my first shot at a deer. It was an unrecoverable gut shot. It took me until 43 to get back into hunting and the last thing I want to do is wound one to death again.

 

[1simplemann]

I wouldn’t put that much confidence in heavy arrows.

You should. Trust me. You have to see to believe it. Last year, I Shattered both shoulders on my buck. 144" 10 pt. Broadside but hit him slightly forward. Pics are on this site somewhere. Search "First saddle kill" . His shoulder joint is hanging out of the exit hole. 2 years before that I shattered the knuckle of a mature 150" 10 pt. Frontal shot 20 yds. It came out his belly. My taxidermist thought it was a rifle kill. He'd never seen a shoulder knuckle shattered by an arrow. The key is having the right set up. Not all set ups will do it. I work too hard to get a mature buck inside of 20 yds. Those opportunities are rare. The really big ones are even rarer. I'm not about to pass a mature buck because he doesn't give me the "perfect" shot. Been there, done that. They got away, Never to be seen again. Build the right set up, Aim for the vital V and let er' eat. You'll get the penetration you need to put the animal down.The only time I haven't had 2 holes in the last 10 years was when I spine shot a bull elk 7-8 years ago. The rest came out the other side and didn't go far. Usually within sight. You have to know what your equipment can do. You miss 100% of the opportunities you don't take.

 

[waltholmes5]

Just my personal opinion. They are for when things don’t go as planned. Not for planning bad things. I have seen plenty of videos of heavy bone breached, but who is going to show a video of it not working? Bone not penetrated….
When I accidentally hit and break heavy bone, maybe I’ll reconsider my opinion about it, but as of now I’m sticking with ethical shots. I quit bow hunting at 16 after my first shot at a deer. It was an unrecoverable gut shot. It took me until 43 to get back into hunting and the last thing I want to do is wound one to death again.

This is why people go for 650, single bevel, tanto tip, high FOC, as many of the 12 factors as they can and not lighter. I think the only factor you don't see too much of is tapered shafts, only ones I'm finding super easily are Grizzlystik.