Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

[Plebe]

Agreed. However, how much more poundage can you pull to get that heavier arrow going that much faster? Diminishing returns sets in on many levels from shot comfort to the ability to draw the bow in the coldest of hunting conditions. It’s much more effective in my opinion to gain those slugs by increased mass. Diminishing returns sets in much later, with the exception of trajectory. Which will always be a balancing act. The target does or should have a say!! Check out this great video on arrow weight:

I wonder how many slugs are needed? His lightest arrow tested in the compound bow (379 grains) produced .496 slugs. His heaviest trad set (703 grains) only produced .428 slugs.

 

[Plebe]

Fairy and rocket man have both eluded to some data they have showing the slower projectiles getting "better" penetration.....i think it's newtons 3rd law? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...the faster that arrow going the more force trying to stop it. The foam target show that easy enough....hold ur arrow.in ur hand and apply slow steady downward pressure and see how far u can sink it....now do the same but slam that arrow in with as much force and as fast as u can

That can't be right. Projectiles of equal composition will certainly penetrate further when moving faster until you get to a point of instability.

 

[tarafrost]

You will get a lot more use and satisfaction out of that bow vs. a crossbow.
Technology has improved compound bows to the point that it has become much easier to be proficient with one and in less time.

One tip that will save you on arrow damage:
Don't shoot for groups, at a single target dot.
Shoot one arrow each, at individual target dots. You'll get the same results as shooting groups, but without the arrow/fletching damage.

Yeah.....never been very passionate about xbows....was more of a necessity due to the shoulder injury, so glad to have a bow that I can shoot without bothering my shoulder! Definitely more skill and satisfaction with a compound bow....and a lot more flexible when it comes to carrying it, stalking, etc.

My groups aren't tight enough yet to worry about having to shoot at different dots. Hopefully with a few weeks of practice, things will start to tighten up where I need to take that advice. LOL

 

[Weldabeast]

That can't be right. Projectiles of equal composition will certainly penetrate further when moving faster until you get to a point of instability.

I know this isn't apple2apple but bare with me....I have posted the video on here somewhere before and I'll link it if I find it.....on mythbusters they placed a target 3 or 4 ft under water. They fire all kinds of different bullets at the target to see if they can bust the myth if u swim underwater bullets won't get ya. Muskets, pistols, hunting calibers, up to the 50bmg. The 9mm I think hit the target and the musket penetrated the target and hit the other side of the pool. All the others didn't make it to the target. The faster u go the more force making u stop. Stick ur arm out the window at 20mph and do the same at 70mph

 

[Weldabeast]

The super fast arrow dumps it's "energy" "more" and "faster" vs the slower will "push" for longer and use "less "energy".....hahaha lots of rabbit ears cause u know what I'm saying but don't necessarily know the right words and how to describe it

 

[BTaylor]

I know this isn't apple2apple but bare with me....I have posted the video on here somewhere before and I'll link it if I find it.....on mythbusters they placed a target 3 or 4 ft under water. They fire all kinds of different bullets at the target to see if they can bust the myth if u swim underwater bullets won't get ya. Muskets, pistols, hunting calibers, up to the 50bmg. The 9mm I think hit the target and the musket penetrated the target and hit the other side of the pool. All the others didn't make it to the target. The faster u go the more force making u stop. Stick ur arm out the window at 20mph and do the same at 70mph

Bullets are deforming on impact by design though where broadheads, esp coc heads, are not being subjected to the same stopping force. In foam or gel there is a squeeze factor from the sealing nature of the material around the shaft of the arrow. A coc head thru an animal is not going to experience any of those stopping factors unless it hits bone and then the stopping effect is going to be influenced by the type and size of bone.

 

[Weldabeast]

I get that.... Like I said not apple2apple. But 2 50cal projectiles hit the same "target" going at way different speeds and the slower projectile penetrated and 1 didn't. I understand the shape of a cone bullet made to expand will make a difference but the speed should make up for it right?....it's speed (and expanding) made it stop quickly but the penetration difference 1 bullet went less than 3 ft and 1 bullet was the length of a swimming pool...not even comparable ....those same forces are happening when we hit something we shouldn't inside the critter just not to the extreme of that example

 

[Horn]

It's not apples to apples, interesting though.

The real problem is that foam isn't critter so bad test. Water isn't critter so.... good test? Water isn't critter still equals bad test

 

[kyler1945]

It's not apples to apples, interesting though.

The real problem is that foam isn't critter so bad test. Water isn't critter so.... good test? Water isn't critter still equals bad test

Critter A in circumstance X isn’t critter B in circumstance Y.

Shoot a razor sharp broadhead on the end of a 400-600gr arrow, inside of 30 yards, at deer heart.


It’s turtles all the way down.

 

[Horn]

Critter A in circumstance X isn’t critter B in circumstance Y.

Shoot a razor sharp broadhead on the end of a 400-600gr arrow, inside of 30 yards, at deer heart.


It’s turtles all the way down.

Agreed and that's the plan. I don't know if I hit the specs in your everyman's guide though. Just not very tall or strong lol

 

[kyler1945]

Agreed and that's the plan. I don't know if I hit the specs in your everyman's guide though. Just not very tall or strong lol

Then go 25 yards, or 20. Most deer are killed with a bow inside that anyway.

 

[ww874]

I just got back into bowhunting a few years ago. My past experience was with aluminum arrows and I had never killed a deer but was usually pretty accurate at 20 yards or so. Since I decided to start bowhunting again after having been away from it for so long and never really being that experienced I went to youtube for some guidance. Well for better or worse I stumbled onto ranch fairies channel. I shoot a 60 pound bow at 29 inches. The arrow I built came in at 552 grs. It was a gold tip xt hunter 300 spine with 150 gr weight up front with a 100 gr QAD broadhead. I practiced and got pretty good at 20 yards or so. I chrono'd the arrow and found I was getting 230 fps. After spending a decent amount of time in the woods I had the opportunity to shoot a really nice one. The deer was behind me walking toward me. I picked a spot at 20 yards and decided when he gets there I'd shoot. Being inexperienced I should have made a noise to stop him but I guess I was a bit too excited. I released the arrow and thought it felt good but to my surprize the deer just kept walking. No reaction at all. I couldn't believe I missed. In my attempt to knock another arrow I made a bit of noise and he jumped and ran a short distance then started walking again. This time he stopped at thirty yards broadside. Just as I released the arrow he started walking again and I watched my 2nd arrow sail right behind his tail. A clean miss. He stopped again at 45 yards and I only had 1 arrow left. I wasn't comfortable shooting so I decided I'd try and grunt him back but just as I was about to grunt he fell over and died. Turns out that first arrow went right through him and he didn't even know it. The shot was not great, I hit him in front of the right hip and it exited diagonally on the left side. Must have clipped the femoral artery.
I realize this is only one instance but I really think that heavy arrow made a difference and I am ranch fairy believer.

 

[kyler1945]

I just got back into bowhunting a few years ago. My past experience was with aluminum arrows and I had never killed a deer but was usually pretty accurate at 20 yards or so. Since I decided to start bowhunting again after having been away from it for so long and never really being that experienced I went to youtube for some guidance. Well for better or worse I stumbled onto ranch fairies channel. I shoot a 60 pound bow at 29 inches. The arrow I built came in at 552 grs. It was a gold tip xt hunter 300 spine with 150 gr weight up front with a 100 gr QAD broadhead. I practiced and got pretty good at 20 yards or so. I chrono'd the arrow and found I was getting 230 fps. After spending a decent amount of time in the woods I had the opportunity to shoot a really nice one. The deer was behind me walking toward me. I picked a spot at 20 yards and decided when he gets there I'd shoot. Being inexperienced I should have made a noise to stop him but I guess I was a bit too excited. I released the arrow and thought it felt good but to my surprize the deer just kept walking. No reaction at all. I couldn't believe I missed. In my attempt to knock another arrow I made a bit of noise and he jumped and ran a short distance then started walking again. This time he stopped at thirty yards broadside. Just as I released the arrow he started walking again and I watched my 2nd arrow sail right behind his tail. A clean miss. He stopped again at 45 yards and I only had 1 arrow left. I wasn't comfortable shooting so I decided I'd try and grunt him back but just as I was about to grunt he fell over and died. Turns out that first arrow went right through him and he didn't even know it. The shot was not great, I hit him in front of the right hip and it exited diagonally on the left side. Must have clipped the femoral artery.
I realize this is only one instance but I really think that heavy arrow made a difference and I am ranch fairy believer.

You shot a heavy slow arrow at a moving deer, hit it 2’ from where you aimed, had your arrow go through the softest part of the deer, got lucky and clipped a 3/16” diameter artery, and you think that ranch fairy somehow had something do with you bringing home the deer?

 

[Crawdaddy4]

You shot a heavy slow arrow at a moving deer, hit it 2’ from where you aimed, had your arrow go through the softest part of the deer, got lucky and clipped a 3/16” diameter artery, and you think that ranch fairy somehow had something do with you bringing home the deer?

As you previously stated "all circumstances are different" (paraphrased), so who's to say that his heavier arrow hit something that a lighter one wouldn't have? I'm simply stating that his arrow setup COULD be the reason he got the deer just as well as it COULD NOT be.

 

[BTaylor]

You shot a heavy slow arrow at a moving deer, hit it 2’ from where you aimed, had your arrow go through the softest part of the deer, got lucky and clipped a 3/16” diameter artery, and you think that ranch fairy somehow had something do with you bringing home the deer?

We all have to believe in something until we have enough experience to confirm the accuracy of our perceptions.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

We all have to believe in something until we have enough experience to confirm the accuracy of our perceptions.

And let's not kid ourselves....90% of our decisions, especially as it pertains to hunting, are based on anecdotal evidence. Ranch Fairy, Ashby, Dudley, Eberhart....the reason there are so many variances in approaches is because we aren't dealing with absolutes.

 

[Plebe]

I know this isn't apple2apple but bare with me....I have posted the video on here somewhere before and I'll link it if I find it.....on mythbusters they placed a target 3 or 4 ft under water. They fire all kinds of different bullets at the target to see if they can bust the myth if u swim underwater bullets won't get ya. Muskets, pistols, hunting calibers, up to the 50bmg. The 9mm I think hit the target and the musket penetrated the target and hit the other side of the pool. All the others didn't make it to the target. The faster u go the more force making u stop. Stick ur arm out the window at 20mph and do the same at 70mph

Yeah, this is a bit obtuse for me.

It’s a bit like saying we need to shoot 400fps because when I spin the wheels on my car fast enough they can overcome friction.

 

[ww874]

You shot a heavy slow arrow at a moving deer, hit it 2’ from where you aimed, had your arrow go through the softest part of the deer, got lucky and clipped a 3/16” diameter artery, and you think that ranch fairy somehow had something do with you bringing home the deer?

Well like I said I did not have much experience. I should have tried to stop that deer first. I actually think had I stopped it, it would have been a perfect shot, but I'll never know. I do know the arrow was very quiet when I released it and it certainly did it's job. I agree with you I got lucky but I can't help but think of something I've heard Troy say many times and that's what happens when the shot isn't perfect. What's plan B? I don't know if a lighter faster arrow would have been as quiet or penetrate as much but I can definitely say the heavy arrow worked perfectly in this situation. The deer was not spoked by the shot and dropped 25 yards from where it was hit. So for now I'm gonna stick with what worked and make sure the next one I shoot at isn't moving.

 

[Weldabeast]

Yeah, this is a bit obtuse for me.

It’s a bit like saying we need to shoot 400fps because when I spin the wheels on my car fast enough they can overcome friction.

What does that even mean?

 

[Halfstep]

KE isn’t the be all end all though either. IMHO the real measure on game is momentum measured in “slugs.” Mass times velocity. The mass is critically and much more realistically obtained than speed in that equation for everyone of us. I have the same DL you do and I opt for a medium-heavy setup at 476gr. Total arrow weight. I shot several setups through my chronograph over the last few years from fast bows to slow bows with a 373 and a 476 gr arrows. But the power factor always increases much more readily with added mass than added speed with ft/lb of energy remaining nearly identical.

KE is defined as energy of mass in motion. Even though KE is dealing with the arrow speed x speed x weight, it is actually a good indicator of what the bow is capable of doing. And it is a good indicator of penetration capabilities.