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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

BTaylor said:
That makes a little more sense. My compound setup is 175 upfront and their chart shows 250 spine but a 300 axis tunes perfect. Adding another 60-65 to that would definitely mean bumping up a spine.
Click to expand...
What poundage and draw length?

If we add that other 60ish grains, the chart seems ok? Would consensus be that as tip weight increases the chart tracks within its range? So from the chart we could get a rough idea where to start, even if we continue adding weight beyond the chart?

Anyone feel free to chime in, I'm not trying to put you on the spot BTaylor. Just a novice trying to piece together info for a new arrow build for a new bow
 
Horn said:
What poundage and draw length?

If we add that other 60ish grains, the chart seems ok? Would consensus be that as tip weight increases the chart tracks within its range? So from the chart we could get a rough idea where to start, even if we continue adding weight beyond the chart?

Anyone feel free to chime in, I'm not trying to put you on the spot BTaylor. Just a novice trying to piece together info for a new arrow build for a new bow
Click to expand...
Compound is 67# @29". Current setup is an axis shaft with 75 grain insert and 100 grain head. It is perfect bullet holes. If I added another 60-65 grains up front I would almost certainly have to go up to the 250 spine the chart shows.
 
Horn said:
What poundage and draw length?

If we add that other 60ish grains, the chart seems ok? Would consensus be that as tip weight increases the chart tracks within its range? So from the chart we could get a rough idea where to start, even if we continue adding weight beyond the chart?

Anyone feel free to chime in, I'm not trying to put you on the spot BTaylor. Just a novice trying to piece together info for a new arrow build for a new bow
Click to expand...

The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes. Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure. Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes. Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way. Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no. Ok...
saddlehunter.com

May be helpful, depending on how weird you’re trying to get.
 
I'm shooting a 2020 Mathews VXR set at 65 pounds with a 29.5 inch draw length. I am shooting Beman 300 spine arrows at 30" with 275 up front. Like I said 125 gr. Magnus Buzzcut Serazors with 150 gr. Ethics insert. 4 Fletch feathers.Taw is hovering around 590 gr. so not super heavy but right about at 19 or 20% foc. I chronographed this set up at 247 fps average speed. These arrows hit dead on with my field points at 30 yards.
 
kyler1945 said:

The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes. Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure. Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes. Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way. Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no. Ok...
saddlehunter.com

May be helpful, depending on how weird you’re trying to get.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your suggestion, I've read it. ( I even pm'ed you about speed, actual vs ibo) A quick look suggests there's no new info.
 
Horn said:
I appreciate your suggestion, I've read it. ( I even pm'ed you about speed, actual vs ibo) A quick look suggests there's no new info.
Click to expand...

Sorry. Reviewed that conversation again.

And looked at spine chart you posted. It seems conservative to the heavy side, which would make sense to me. Compound shooters can get away with a too stiff spine with a tuned bow.

Why do I think it is conservative to the stiff side?

I shoot a 340 IBO bow, 30” draw, 76lb draw weight, 29.5” total arrow length including nock and broadhead, 225gr total weight on front end.

I shoot 300 spine in multiple different shafts, and they tune great. I can get 250’s to tune easily too. The chart you referenced suggests I’m borderline between 250, and 200.


But if I had followed my own advice blindly, I would arrive at 250 or 300 spine, and both would work!
 
Ok, I know this is stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot but I'm genuinely interested in why results very so much.

youtube.com

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!?

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!? .. Dan Staton of Elkshape breaks it down with Josh Jones aka MFJJ of @podiumarcher3447 as he shot a buffalo and wa...
youtube.com youtube.com

I don't think Buffalo are particularly hard to hunt, but it's a darn big animal...
 
Horn said:
Ok, I know this is stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot but I'm genuinely interested in why results very so much.

youtube.com

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!?

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!? .. Dan Staton of Elkshape breaks it down with Josh Jones aka MFJJ of @podiumarcher3447 as he shot a buffalo and wa...
youtube.com youtube.com

I don't think Buffalo are particularly hard to hunt, but it's a darn big animal...
Click to expand...

My thoughts would be perfect arrow flight, perfect shot and a lack of encountering heavy bone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Horn said:
Ok, I know this is stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot but I'm genuinely interested in why results very so much.

youtube.com

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!?

420 Grain Arrow vs Buffalo, What Happens!? .. Dan Staton of Elkshape breaks it down with Josh Jones aka MFJJ of @podiumarcher3447 as he shot a buffalo and wa...
youtube.com youtube.com

I don't think Buffalo are particularly hard to hunt, but it's a darn big animal...
Click to expand...
Read the factors. The 650 heavy bone threshold is #12 UNLESS you hit bone where it becomes #3. The more you have the better the penetration but TAW >650 is only for bone but more mass the better for penetration also.

12 Arrow Penetration Factors — Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

www.ashbybowhunting.org www.ashbybowhunting.org
 
waltholmes5 said:
Read the factors. The 650 heavy bone threshold is #12 UNLESS you hit bone where it becomes #3. The more you have the better the penetration but TAW >650 is only for bone but more mass the better for penetration also.

12 Arrow Penetration Factors — Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

www.ashbybowhunting.org www.ashbybowhunting.org
Click to expand...
#12 on the list and 90% of the info I see discussed is go heavy or go home and speed never mattered anyway!! Just saying, there's more than one line of thought in arrows.

I bet a big factor is that Josh can shoot
 
Horn said:
#12 on the list and 90% of the info I see discussed is go heavy or go home and speed never mattered anyway!! Just saying, there's more than one line of thought in arrows.

I bet a big factor is that Josh can shoot
Click to expand...
The biggest factor is he hit it where he was supposed too. Pull that shot 3 or 4 inches and hit the shoulder and you've got a wounded buff on your hands.
 
Horn said:
#12 on the list and 90% of the info I see discussed is go heavy or go home and speed never mattered anyway!! Just saying, there's more than one line of thought in arrows.

I bet a big factor is that Josh can shoot
Click to expand...
He's also aiming and hitting exactly where his arrow build is supposed to go and avoiding bone. The reason we're discussing go heavy or go home is to change that point of aim to be more directly for the heart and as plan B
 
Horn said:
Ok, I know this is stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot but I'm genuinely interested in why results very so much.
Click to expand...
There is such a thing as "window of tune". The larger the window, the more forgiving it is for mistakes in our form.
Lots of us end up tuning arrows under ideal shooting conditions and we don't realize that we have a narrow window of tune, or that we are on the edge of our window. In those cases, it doesn't take much of a flaw in our form, like what often happens during high stress situations, for an arrow to fly bad.
And those occurrences of a slight arrow kick would often be magnified on ultra close shots. It's the short distance shots that tend to have poor penetration. The longer shots allow the arrow to stabilize before impact.
There are lots of reasons why penetration results can vary from shot to shot, archer to archer, arrow to arrow.
Perfect tune is highly misunderstood.
 
I don’t get this guys mission to somehow disprove basic physics lol. As soon as you hit bone your arrow will not penetrate as well as a 600+ grain monster arrow. He’s a glorified influencer/bow tech, I’m not going to take his opinion vs a guy that is an expert in making things fly into tank armor. I’m sure he’s really good at what he does with bows but he’s not an engineer and his opinion are just that, opinions. The science is very sound on this, it’s just applying it to which application for you is the key. If you want flatter trajectory go a little lighter, if you want to smash through stuff go heavier. There’s trade offs to both. I shoot within 20 yards 99.9% of the time so trajectory isn’t going to be a big deal to me.
 
SaddleUpPartner! said:
I don’t get this guys mission to somehow disprove basic physics lol. As soon as you hit bone your arrow will not penetrate as well as a 600+ grain monster arrow. He’s a glorified influencer/bow tech, I’m not going to take his opinion vs a guy that is an expert in making things fly into tank armor. I’m sure he’s really good at what he does with bows but he’s not an engineer and his opinion are just that, opinions. The science is very sound on this, it’s just applying it to which application for you is the key. If you want flatter trajectory go a little lighter, if you want to smash through stuff go heavier. There’s trade offs to both. I shoot within 20 yards 99.9% of the time so trajectory isn’t going to be a big deal to me.
Click to expand...

All of this. I started down this road when I needed new string and I had the time to build new arrows. The first time I saw "high foc" on a hunting video I thought "duh, this makes perfect sense, I'm doing that". My background is in physics and engineering though, so I understand why my take on it might be different from someone else. I also understand that a light fast arrow with a mechanical works and if it works for you that's what you should use.

I don't understand why hunters would become almost combative about it, but I do see why a bow shop guy wouldn't like this. Guys tuning their own bows and not buying a $40 pack of broadheads every year? Building their own arrows? A local bow shop guy said it was the dumbest thing he ever heard of, and for him, I agree.

It's whatever floats your boat, but in my mind and my experience it couldn't be any clearer. I'm now significantly and consistently more accurate and confident at longer distances than I have ever been. Maybe that's just because I'm putting a lot more time and attention in my setup? Who knows....who cares? I love it!
 
SaddleUpPartner! said:
I don’t get this guys mission to somehow disprove basic physics lol. As soon as you hit bone your arrow will not penetrate as well as a 600+ grain monster arrow. He’s a glorified influencer/bow tech, I’m not going to take his opinion vs a guy that is an expert in making things fly into tank armor. I’m sure he’s really good at what he does with bows but he’s not an engineer and his opinion are just that, opinions. The science is very sound on this, it’s just applying it to which application for you is the key. If you want flatter trajectory go a little lighter, if you want to smash through stuff go heavier. There’s trade offs to both. I shoot within 20 yards 99.9% of the time so trajectory isn’t going to be a big deal to me.
Click to expand...

Ashby mostly uses fluid dynamics to bolster his arguments and sprinkles in friction where it's easiest.

They act quite differently.

Not throwing it all out the window, but what's going on seems to me quite a bit more nuanced than the science demonstrated.
 
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