Who the heck is making Amsteel tethers and Amsteel prussic combos and selling them on FB???

[Vtbow]

People please do your due diligence and understand what manufacturers designed their products for and recommend for and against. There is like a encyclopedia put out by Samson on what you should and shouldnt due with Amsteel...including specific specs such as bend radius'.


I edited this from my original post as it was a little harsh...but there's a lot of safety issues out their right now and people need to understand what they're getting themselves into.

 

[always89y]

Not selling them, but I am using them, and have showed others how to make them and use them to climb. Whats the concern with them?

 

[Vtbow]

Not selling them, but I am using them, and have showed others how to make them and use them to climb. Whats the concern with them?

Amsteel is 100% not recommended for friction hitches.

If you're saying you do a 100% burry on the spliced loop like Tethrd's bridge, I'd be very very weary of trusting a concept that the manufacturer and industries which have been using amsteel the longest have advised against.

 

[Ryan0794]

Amsteel is 100% not recommended for friction hitches.

If you're saying you do a 100% burry on the spliced loop like Tethrd's bridge, I'd be very very weary of trusting a concept that the manufacturer and industries which have been using amsteel the longest have advised against.

Is this any different than Tethrd's Utilibridge or the Cruzr Adjustable bridge.

 

[always89y]

Looks like its Lance Wagner is selling this particular one and its from Custom Amsteel Products creation.

I wanted to be clear, the posted picture and add are not mine.

Understand what your saying and appreciate your concern. Ive been using this system (taking it out of concept and putting it into practice), as have the saddle manufacturers (Phantom bridge and others). The key is to be smart, understand that friction, while being one of our best allies, is also our worse enemy. Assuming your concern is related to burn through, melting points and such, you have to realize that the configuration DOES lock and hold. Now, its more of a fixed prussik, not to be use with a prussik tender, ropeman, kong, or anything that is intended to make a prussik adjustable. Thats introducing potential to loosen and release. While most prussiks are better suited for this, they can all fail when heat and shock are introduced.
If your concern is that amsteel is not intended as a life saving device, well, neither is half the crap we choose to use to hang our happy arses in trees, or the equipment we use to get there.

I dont trust the manufacturers any more, or less, than I do most of the folks here. I appreciate that they are putting in their homework, but I choose to put in my own.

With that said, if you dont trust it, by all means dont use it. I could not agree more.

Love ya brother, nothing pointed towards you, love what you do and share. Just countering this particular point of view.

 

[Vtbow]

Is this any different than Tethrd's Utilibridge or the Cruzr Adjustable bridge.

If that is a question you have, you should ask the saddle manufacturer and the rope manufacturer, and do your homework. Why aren't arborists and professionally certified AMGA and IMG's using Amsteel for these purposes and applications? Believe me, it's not cause they missed the boat...

 

[Jtaylor]

Amsteel tether

Has anyone made an amsteel tether? Thinking that a 20' length of 1/4" amsteel with a 6" locked brummel loop an a full bury may make a nice lightweight tether. Thoughts?

saddlehunter.com

 

[Swingin' Free]

Darwin is going to be quite busy the next few years. Between this and the paracord tethers....

 

[Ryan0794]

Looks like its Lance Wagner is selling this particular one and its from Custom Amsteel Products creation.

I wanted to be clear, the posted picture and add are not mine.

Understand what your saying and appreciate your concern. Ive been using this system (taking it out of concept and putting it into practice), as have the saddle manufacturers (Phantom bridge and others). The key is to be smart, understand that friction, while being one of our best allies, is also our worse enemy. Assuming your concern is related to burn through, melting points and such, you have to realize that the configuration DOES lock and hold. Now, its more of a fixed prussik, not to be use with a prussik tender, ropeman, kong, or anything that is intended to make a prussik adjustable. Thats introducing potential to loosen and release. While most prussiks are better suited for this, they can all fail when heat and shock are introduced.
If your concern is that amsteel is not intended as a life saving device, well, neither is half the crap we choose to use to hang our happy arses in trees, or the equipment we use to get there.

I dont trust the manufacturers any more, or less, than I do most of the folks here. I appreciate that they are putting in their homework, but I choose to put in my own.

With that said, if you dont trust it, by all means dont use it. I could not agree more.

Love ya brother, nothing pointed towards you, love what you do and share. Just countering this particular point of view.

I cant speak for everyone obviously but when adjusting any bridge, amsteel or not ive never adjusted under any load or tension to increase any friction or burn of the material and don't believe these are intended to be adjusted that way.

 

[DanielB89]

If that is a question you have, you should ask the saddle manufacturer and the rope manufacturer, and do your homework. Why aren't arborists and professionally certified AMGA and IMG's using Amsteel for these purposes and applications? Believe me, it's not cause they missed the boat...

I think bc arborists don't care about weight. Arborists are trusting their life to the best tools they can buy and using something outside of it's intended use would be pointless. Let's remember why the amsteel bridge was created... weight reduction while adding strength.

 

[PEEJAY]

I am weary to use one as my tether. I saw Always89 using them in his videos n my eyes got big for a second. then realized my bridge is amsteel with a prussic. lol. absolutely no different. so i cant say anything. Have considered going to a webbing bridge or at least back to a fixed amsteel. i never adjust my bridge, only tether height so its pretty pointless. I havent seen any tests showing this stuff in a fall. i know we are up high enough to die if something snaps but i still feel like things are a lot different than arborist jobs and our climbing/hunting

 

[always89y]

I think bc arborists don't care about weight. Arborists are trusting their life to the best tools they can buy and using something outside of it's intended use would be pointless. Let's remember why the amsteel bridge was created... weight reduction while adding strength.

I will add to this point by saying, arborists are constantly moving, branch to branch, tree to tree and they are working with heavy loads while in the tree. I think its a very safe practice to try and emulate their equipment, but for me, its not practical to my application. Im ascending, sitting (as still as possible) and descending. I also completely understand and accept the risk I assume when doing so. Its still safer than a climber, in my opinion.

 

[Vtbow]

Looks like its Lance Wagner is selling this particular one and its from Custom Amsteel Products creation.

I wanted to be clear, the posted picture and add are not mine.

Understand what your saying and appreciate your concern. Ive been using this system (taking it out of concept and putting it into practice), as have the saddle manufacturers (Phantom bridge and others). The key is to be smart, understand that friction, while being one of our best allies, is also our worse enemy. Assuming your concern is related to burn through, melting points and such, you have to realize that the configuration DOES lock and hold. Now, its more of a fixed prussik, not to be use with a prussik tender, ropeman, kong, or anything that is intended to make a prussik adjustable. Thats introducing potential to loosen and release. While most prussiks are better suited for this, they can all fail when heat and shock are introduced.
If your concern is that amsteel is not intended as a life saving device, well, neither is half the crap we choose to use to hang our happy arses in trees, or the equipment we use to get there.

I dont trust the manufacturers any more, or less, than I do most of the folks here. I appreciate that they are putting in their homework, but I choose to put in my own.

With that said, if you dont trust it, by all means dont use it. I could not agree more.

Love ya brother, nothing pointed towards you, love what you do and share. Just countering this particular point of view.

No worries, discussion is a good thing and brings questions and concerns to light for everyone. Education is key. Nothing about a good discussion bothers me man!!!!

And no, I dont use amsteel. I"ve read the manual many many times. I've corresponded with Sampson directly with questions.

What we do can never fall into the realm of being called "safe". We manage our risks to the best of our knowledge based upon the information and education we have at hand. That being said, if the information is out there, and specific testing and recommendations are published on a product based upon that manufacturers testing and design and a person does not adhere to them is where lies the issue. You have made a decision to take a greater risk than necessary because you have the information that what you're doing is directly against recommendations.

Ok, great, so you've decided to put yourself at risk by not following those guidelines. Cool, no problem--you've decided to take a risk you may consider "calculated" though you don't have the actual numbers because it's beng used in a way its not intended.

This is where I have a very serious problem with it: A product like this is made or sold to someone else with the knowledge that it is not the intended use of the product, and it may be against the recommended use and best practices. That decision is direct negligence. I have a background in an industry where negligence is taken very very seriously. This is inherently more of a problem when the person who may be harmed isn't the one with the information needed to manage their own risk by use of best practices and recommended standards.

 

[always89y]

I am weary to use one as my tether. I saw Always89 using them in his videos n my eyes got big for a second. then realized my bridge is amsteel with a prussic. lol. absolutely no different. so i cant say anything. Have considered going to a webbing bridge or at least back to a fixed amsteel. i never adjust my bridge, only tether height so its pretty pointless. I havent seen any tests showing this stuff in a fall. i know we are up high enough to die if something snaps but i still feel like things are a lot different than arborist jobs and our climbing/hunting

Tethered actually did a video of their bridge during a fall (several falls, actually), and provided the results.

 

[Vtbow]

I think bc arborists don't care about weight. Arborists are trusting their life to the best tools they can buy and using something outside of it's intended use would be pointless. Let's remember why the amsteel bridge was created... weight reduction while adding strength.

Yes, but Mountaineers and professional climbers are weight weenies...I mean I know people who weigh particular carabiners for climbs and build their rack to a certain weight in a very calculated manner. Amsteel is not anywhere in their kit...no would it be accepted as so.

 

[raisins]

I think bc arborists don't care about weight. Arborists are trusting their life to the best tools they can buy and using something outside of it's intended use would be pointless. Let's remember why the amsteel bridge was created... weight reduction while adding strength.

If you add strength above and beyond what is required, then I don't see the point when you are also introducing an additional mode of failure.

As soon as I heard about amsteel's melting point and why it shouldn't be used as a friction hitch, I removed my bridge from my Cruzr saddle and made a replica with Oplux and TRC. It might be a few ounces heavier.

 

[Ryan0794]

I'm here because I've replaced the bridge on my mantis with a secondary 11mm spliced lineman's rope girth hitched on one side with a prusik on the other and it worked great, (never adjusted under any load but i do adjust longer when im sitting shorter when im leaning) Just purchased a new saddle and ordered the cruzr adjustable Amsteel bridge. Have not installed it yet. This conversation is making me rethink the install even with it being a continuous spliced loop.

 

[Vtbow]

Tethered actually did a video of their bridge during a fall (several falls, actually), and provided the results.

Do you know if they tested it on a partially "set" hitch? how far does it fall before it grips, or does it? Managing risk is about preparing for the worse case scenario. Amsteel is slippery as heck, and something advertised as "adjustable" may have been "adjusted" and not fully set at any point during use.

 

[always89y]

No worries, discussion is a good thing and brings questions and concerns to light for everyone. Education is key. Nothing about a good discussion bothers me man!!!!

And no, I dont use amsteel. I"ve read the manual many many times. I've corresponded with Sampson directly with questions.

What we do can never fall into the realm of being called "safe". We manage our risks to the best of our knowledge based upon the information and education we have at hand. That being said, if the information is out there, and specific testing and recommendations are published on a product based upon that manufacturers testing and design and a person does not adhere to them is where lies the issue. You have made a decision to take a greater risk than necessary because you have the information that what you're doing is directly against recommendations.

Ok, great, so you've decided to put yourself at risk by not following those guidelines. Cool, no problem--you've decided to take a risk you may consider "calculated" though you don't have the actual numbers because it's beng used in a way its not intended.

This is where I have a very serious problem with it: A product like this is made or sold to someone else with the knowledge that it is not the intended use of the product, and it may against the recommended use and best practices. That decision is direct negligence. I have a background in an industry where negligence is taken very very seriously. This is inherently more of a problem when the person who may be harmed isn't the one with the information needed to manage their own risk by use of best practices and recommended standards.

Could not agree more with you in regards to risk assumption. I also agree that folks should do their homework before buying anything, before that they are considering using to mitigate the already unnecessary risk of climbing a tree in the first place.

Pertaining to unnecessary risk, will, we are not designed to climb trees. We need apparatuses for that, We are all assuming a certain level of unnecessary risk simply by climbing trees. So, we are talking about the level of unnecessary risk each of us are willing to take.
For me, I have looked at the numbers. I know the working and breaking strengths, as well as the melting points and at what temp the fibers begin to break down. A sliding amsteel on amsteel prussik, under load, or any amsteel on amsteel friction knot for that matter, WILL most likely fail. Amsteel conections should be fixed. period. The friction produced over a foot is enough to start to break down the fibers. I mitigate that risk, to what is an acceptable level for me, by reducing the failure points on a prussik (I dont adjust it, especially under load).

You do make some solid points that I will certainly consider moving forward.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I feel like it's shouting into the void, but Tethrd is literally the only entity that has done testing and concluded it's a good idea.

Arborists, off roaders, sailors, search and rescue professionals, and lots of other industries with more time, money, and experience than anybody in the hunting world have been using amsteel and don't recommend using it as a friction hitch. Heck, Samson says it's not recommended.

Hitches built from approved materials and used on approved materials can and do slip. We see it happen semi-regular on here.They generally hold up because they're engineered with that purpose in mind. Tethrd dropped a dummy in a lab. What happens when a dummy drops himself in field conditions? Wet, dirty gear that's had a few seasons worth of hard use...what's that look like?

We don't know. I remember catching way more flack than amsteel friction hitches have when I made carbon bolts the "flavor of the week" climbing method. I've never really tried to sell that as a safe system, and I've definitely never sold carbon bolts to folks and profited.

Folks who DIY their gear are generally initially more nervous about it. They read more. They know they're responsible. Folks who buy ready-made gear assume that it is bulletproof and somebody else has already worried about that and it's perfectly safe. They sometimes go so far as to assume "if it's rated for x, it's probably rated for x times 2." And maybe it is. Maybe it is only rated for x times 1.2. Different t factors of safety for different industries. It does worry me that folks can buy an amsteel on amsteel tether or bridge.

An alarming percentage of products in the hunting stand industry have problems. LWCG has had problems with pretty much all of their stuff. Tethrd has hit rough patches. Hawk, Muddy, and Ameristep are all bigger companies that have had problems with products breaking. None of them push the envelope hard either. So what happens when a young company in a young industry starts pushing the boundaries? And the users aren't overanalytical DIY guys, but just weekend warriors who bought a piece of gear and threw the instruction manual away and went hunting?