Dog tests on scent control

[Root]

I really hate to do this, and I've been avoiding it.

I grew up racing cars. After racing for a few years I noticed trends. Most racers always needed a hero. Once the new popular hero came they would jump on the bandwagon and worship the guy. If his motors were built by Bob they'd get their motors built by Bob. Then someone else would come along and be the new hero and they'd jump ship. That doesn't mean either hero is better than the other.

I'm watching this on this forum. Again this turns into a John vs Dan hunting method. John used scent lok, Dan uses milk weed. You could side with one or the other. Both more successful than most of us will ever be. But instead of making one a hero, take in and think about all the info you can and go have some fun out there. Stop dividing into groups. No I'm not standing up for either one. I just hate the bickering, I deal with it enough at work.

How I view it:

I'm not the biggest deer killer in the world. But I want to be. Just like racing, I'll listen to the heroes and forge my own path. It doesn't matter what they believe, it matters what can I do to be successful for me. Maybe I'll build my own motor with some of their parts.

From my understanding both John and Dan forged their own paths to success. I respect the heck out of both of them and others. Teach me what you can, I'll listen and choose to apply what works for me. If I don't believe it I'm moving on, teach me something else.

 

[Swampfox]

I find the idea of the test intriguing.... it has been on my mind ever since I first read about it (in your book I believe?). I have spent a great amount of time around hounds. Watching and listening to a good hound work a track is pure pleasure to me. So to bring this thread full circle, I wanna get back to the stipulations in the testing of what it would take to convince me that you are undetectable to a deers nose.

I feel I need to be upfront and forthcoming as to where I stand on the topic as to not show bias. I’m in the belief that scent loc does indeed help to mitigate scent but does not make one completely scent free. I also believe that people in the south,particularly in the deep south with very humid climates,are at a more severe disadvantage than other areas( reasons to come).

Let’s start with the dog.... this dog is going to have to be very specialized and pretty damn hard to find. The reason why is that hounds are trained to track, meaning they are searching not only for your scent on the ground but also the disturbance of the ground when your scent is absent between steps. A hounds body shape has evolved over time so that their long ears sweep the scent to their nose. Which makes them great on track....however you’re not laying down a track, so there’s no need in getting a tracking dog to search for you. You’ll fool 90% of them right off the start. This dog will need to be from a treeing dog breed such as a redbone, Black and Tan, blue tick, etc... The reason being is that you’re in a tree (of course) so that’s where they need to looking for scent. However just having a treeing dog breed is not good enough, it takes a damn good dog (one that will be worth in the tens of thousands of dollars) that can tree without a track. There are dogs out there that can pick up a scent and go directly to the tree but again pretty rare. To further complex the scenario the dog will need to be trained to find humans, you see most hounds could care less about a human scent that’s not the quarry they normally seek. So to sum up this portion you’re going to need a treeing cadaver dog(if there is such a thing).

Next part to the test is that I need to know what the wind and thermals are doing. If the wind and thermals aren’t bringing the potential scent to where they can in theory be located than this whole thing is a wash. I want to see you drop milkweed frequently enough to satisfy the confirmation of the dog being in the right location to receive the scent. However I don’t want you to do it so much as to give away your location.

Next is your position in the tree, I personally would like to see you at 20’. I bow hunt at this height as well as many others. If you’re scent free (as stated) it shouldn’t matter the height, just as long as you’re on the back side the tree to rule out sight locating by the dog.

Next, I explain why southern people have it so bad and why it must be a humid day for this test. You see humidity collects scent and allows it to linger, much like a fog lingers over a water body. I’ve run everything from rabbit dogs to deer dogs and even keep a coon dog around the house currently. I can attest that the difference that humidity makes in helping a hound to locate and track is night and day. This is why you see a deer lick it’s nose when trying to wind something. The wetness of the nose affixes the scent to it. Those cold crisp days scent is dispersed quickly and makes it harder to get winded, thus is why humidity is needed for the test. While on this topic I’d like to mention that humidity is a pain to hunt in, much more in clothing that doesn’t breathe. I can take the heat, I see it everyday in my profession as a land surveyor. I even see it when I begin my stamina training in August up until the beginning of the season in Oct. As stated I can take the heat, but I’m dressed appropriately to the conditions. Using Scent loc in humid conditions is not appropriate attire even for me. Just sitting still in the stifling humid heat can cause a sweat and can quickly saturate entire garments. It’s hard to believe the seepage of sweat through the suit is scent free. But then again I’m open minded to being proved wrong....

In closing, I’d like to state that I’m not trying to tear you down. It’s just that you make some bold statements that are contrary to popular belief. As my elders said “Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see”. And with that in mind I simply want more stringent testing procedures. I want to know I’m buying a product based on tested filed results and not someone selling a product to the masses. I hope you find the time to give a full response to the request as I look forward to continuing a healthy discussion on this topic.
Best regards,
Derek

 

[EricS]

I find the idea of the test intriguing.... it has been on my mind ever since I first read about it (in your book I believe?). I have spent a great amount of time around hounds. Watching and listening to a good hound work a track is pure pleasure to me. So to bring this thread full circle, I wanna get back to the stipulations in the testing of what it would take to convince me that you are undetectable to a deers nose.

I feel I need to be upfront and forthcoming as to where I stand on the topic as to not show bias. I’m in the belief that scent loc does indeed help to mitigate scent but does not make one completely scent free. I also believe that people in the south,particularly in the deep south with very humid climates,are at a more severe disadvantage than other areas( reasons to come).

Let’s start with the dog.... this dog is going to have to be very specialized and pretty damn hard to find. The reason why is that hounds are trained to track, meaning they are searching not only for your scent on the ground but also the disturbance of the ground when your scent is absent between steps. A hounds body shape has evolved over time so that their long ears sweep the scent to their nose. Which makes them great on track....however you’re not laying down a track, so there’s no need in getting a tracking dog to search for you. You’ll fool 90% of them right off the start. This dog will need to be from a treeing dog breed such as a redbone, Black and Tan, blue tick, etc... The reason being is that you’re in a tree (of course) so that’s where they need to looking for scent. However just having a treeing dog breed is not good enough, it takes a damn good dog (one that will be worth in the tens of thousands of dollars) that can tree without a track. There are dogs out there that can pick up a scent and go directly to the tree but again pretty rare. To further complex the scenario the dog will need to be trained to find humans, you see most hounds could care less about a human scent that’s not the quarry they normally seek. So to sum up this portion you’re going to need a treeing cadaver dog(if there is such a thing).

Next part to the test is that I need to know what the wind and thermals are doing. If the wind and thermals aren’t bringing the potential scent to where they can in theory be located than this whole thing is a wash. I want to see you drop milkweed frequently enough to satisfy the confirmation of the dog being in the right location to receive the scent. However I don’t want you to do it so much as to give away your location.

Next is your position in the tree, I personally would like to see you at 20’. I bow hunt at this height as well as many others. If you’re scent free (as stated) it shouldn’t matter the height, just as long as you’re on the back side the tree to rule out sight locating by the dog.

Next, I explain why southern people have it so bad and why it must be a humid day for this test. You see humidity collects scent and allows it to linger, much like a fog lingers over a water body. I’ve run everything from rabbit dogs to deer dogs and even keep a coon dog around the house currently. I can attest that the difference that humidity makes in helping a hound to locate and track is night and day. This is why you see a deer lick it’s nose when trying to wind something. The wetness of the nose affixes the scent to it. Those cold crisp days scent is dispersed quickly and makes it harder to get winded, thus is why humidity is needed for the test. While on this topic I’d like to mention that humidity is a pain to hunt in, much more in clothing that doesn’t breathe. I can take the heat, I see it everyday in my profession as a land surveyor. I even see it when I begin my stamina training in August up until the beginning of the season in Oct. As stated I can take the heat, but I’m dressed appropriately to the conditions. Using Scent loc in humid conditions is not appropriate attire even for me. Just sitting still in the stifling humid heat can cause a sweat and can quickly saturate entire garments. It’s hard to believe the seepage of sweat through the suit is scent free. But then again I’m open minded to being proved wrong....

In closing, I’d like to state that I’m not trying to tear you down. It’s just that you make some bold statements that are contrary to popular belief. As my elders said “Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see”. And with that in mind I simply want more stringent testing procedures. I want to know I’m buying a product based on tested filed results and not someone selling a product to the masses. I hope you find the time to give a full response to the request as I look forward to continuing a healthy discussion on this topic.
Best regards,
Derek

Swampfox a cur or feist willbtree by wind more readily than a hound. I could care less about ground disturbance. What makes the whole dog test invalid is the fact that the dog is actively hunting you. It wants to find you. Deer just want to know if you’re close enough to be a threat. Once they do that they are seeking the next threat.

 

[huntin_addict]

Not as much or big.

To be fair, everyone here looks up to you and for some reason calls you the god father. However, with comments and general assumptions like these, I've formed a different opinion. I think you are nothing more than a salesman. Anyone who questions or has even a smidge of doubt about the product you pimp you go on the offensive. To reply directly to this pompous comment, I do pretty well in my little corner. Good luck in the rest of your life. Also congratulations are in order, you're the very first member to hit my ignore list. Man this forum is so much cleaner without all the spam.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I really hate to do this, and I've been avoiding it.

I grew up racing cars. After racing for a few years I noticed trends. Most racers always needed a hero. Once the new popular hero came they would jump on the bandwagon and worship the guy. If his motors were built by Bob they'd get their motors built by Bob. Then someone else would come along and be the new hero and they'd jump ship. That doesn't mean either hero is better than the other.

I'm watching this on this forum. Again this turns into a John vs Dan hunting method. John used scent lok, Dan uses milk weed. You could side with one or the other. Both more successful than most of us will ever be. But instead of making one a hero, take in and think about all the info you can and go have some fun out there. Stop dividing into groups. No I'm not standing up for either one. I just hate the bickering, I deal with it enough at work.

How I view it:

I'm not the biggest deer killer in the world. But I want to be. Just like racing, I'll listen to the heroes and forge my own path. It doesn't matter what they believe, it matters what can I do to be successful for me. Maybe I'll build my own motor with some of their parts.

From my understanding both John and Dan forged their own paths to success. I respect the heck out of both of them and others. Teach me what you can, I'll listen and choose to apply what works for me. If I don't believe it I'm moving on, teach me something else.

2x my thoughts too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[kenn1320]

Heros:
One has countless self filmed videos of successfully killing big bucks, the other if he has them....has yet to share them.

 

[redsquirrel]

This thread has veered far enough off topic that I'm locking it before the bashing gets out of hand.

If anyone wants to bash Dan Infalt, John Eberhart or any other members of my site, please go do it on another site.