Lead rope/strap

[Scott F]

Post'm up!

What are you using - rope, webbing, strap, etc.
What hardware do you use for the specific lead device?

I'm considering changing out my 11mm rope to something that can be packed a little smaller. I was considering using a smaller diameter rope and having the end spliced, but I am also considering just using a nylon runner (girth hitched to the tree).

 

[Erniepower]

I use a three hook lineman strap made of 9mm rope with a sliding center hook. It allows me to go around branches on the way up and also doubles as my tether once I get there. Let me see if I can find some pictures.

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[Erniepower]

This picture doesn't show my rope man as it was taken before I got one.

 

[essdub]

I do something similar, but the rope is also used as bridge and descent/rappelling rope

 

[Scott F]

I bought some 8mm New England accessory cord last night. Going to play with it to try my hand at an eye splice.
If it works out to my satisfaction, I'll probably use it for my lead rope this season.

'Packability' of 8mm rope vs 11mm rope is significant.
I like the all-in-one lineman's belt and lead tether rope, but I have a lineman's belt system that works well for me. It is some nylon webbing with a cam buckle (think LW strap). I'm confident in this system and it is super easy to adjust so I'll likely keep it.

 

[redsquirrel]

I bought some 8mm New England accessory cord last night. Going to play with it to try my hand at an eye splice.
If it works out to my satisfaction, I'll probably use it for my lead rope this season.

'Packability' of 8mm rope vs 11mm rope is significant.
I like the all-in-one lineman's belt and lead tether rope, but I have a lineman's belt system that works well for me. It is some nylon webbing with a cam buckle (think LW strap). I'm confident in this system and it is super easy to adjust so I'll likely keep it.

FYI that 8mm cord is only about 1/2 of the recommend life support rating. If you are looking to go smaller there are some 9mm climbing ropes with much higher ratings.

 

[Scott F]

Red,

Good information and I actually considered that fact.
My thinking is that the life support rating is for the potential for a dynamic fall, something that is unlikely when used as a lead tether as we do.

I was thinking about trying a nylon sling that wraps around the tree and leaves about a 10" tag end that I can clip directly into with my carabineer. Climbing tape / tubular nylon is wicked strong stuff.

 

[Scott F]

I just followed a YouTube video (16 strand arborist splice) to create an eye splice in an 8mm rope.
--about the video
It was really well done, I was able to complete it exactly as it was shown despite not having any of the tools... My wire fid was a thin coat hanger wire and my boat cleat was a big old hook on the back of my wife's Jeep. All in all, it came out well.

--about the splice
For some reason I didn't pick up on the fact that in this type of splice there are no internal cords in the spliced eye when you are finished. I'm confident in the job that I did I just don't know if I trust the dadgum rope now! There are a bunch of videos about hollow braid rope, and the type of splice for that sort of rope includes the rope's guts in the eye.


I'm not afraid of personally using an 8mm rope as a lead tether, but I think that I trust my knot tying more than this splice. I've never had a figure 8 (if tied correctly) move. It would take me all of about 7 seconds to tie a proper figure 8 backed with an overhand. Another 5 seconds or so to tidy it all up and I'd be ready to go and that is being ultra conservative. I think I'll go that route and not try my luck this year to this splice.

 

[redsquirrel]

Red,

Good information and I actually considered that fact.
My thinking is that the life support rating is for the potential for a dynamic fall, something that is unlikely when used as a lead tether as we do.

I was thinking about trying a nylon sling that wraps around the tree and leaves about a 10" tag end that I can clip directly into with my carabineer. Climbing tape / tubular nylon is wicked strong stuff.

I agree that a dynamic fall is unlikely (but not impossible), but plan for the worst, expect the best. If you do go the nylon sling route, make sure you check it often. The downside to the the nylon slings is that they are unprotected and a small nick can turn into you on the ground very quickly. This is why climbing rope has the strong core protected by the sheath.

 

[brydan]

I just followed a YouTube video (16 strand arborist splice) to create an eye splice in an 8mm rope.
--about the video
It was really well done, I was able to complete it exactly as it was shown despite not having any of the tools... My wire fid was a thin coat hanger wire and my boat cleat was a big old hook on the back of my wife's Jeep. All in all, it came out well.

--about the splice
For some reason I didn't pick up on the fact that in this type of splice there are no internal cords in the spliced eye when you are finished. I'm confident in the job that I did I just don't know if I trust the dadgum rope now! There are a bunch of videos about hollow braid rope, and the type of splice for that sort of rope includes the rope's guts in the eye.


I'm not afraid of personally using an 8mm rope as a lead tether, but I think that I trust my knot tying more than this splice. I've never had a figure 8 (if tied correctly) move. It would take me all of about 7 seconds to tie a proper figure 8 backed with an overhand. Another 5 seconds or so to tidy it all up and I'd be ready to go and that is being ultra conservative. I think I'll go that route and not try my luck this year to this splice.

Cut that splice off and throw it away! 16 strand Arborist ropes are built with a specific construction whereby the braided outside fibers comprise virtually all of the ropes strength. The core provides a little strength but is mostly to hold the ropes shape and stay round when used with friction hitches. Your 8mm rope is probably kernmantle where the strength fibers are in the inside and the sheath just protects the core. So by criss-crossing splicing techniques you probably made a splice that removed all the strength of the rope.

 

[brydan]

I agree that a dynamic fall is unlikely (but not impossible), but plan for the worst, expect the best. If you do go the nylon sling route, make sure you check it often. The downside to the the nylon slings is that they are unprotected and a small nick can turn into you on the ground very quickly. This is why climbing rope has the strong core protected by the sheath.

Yes. I have a friend who's been in a wheel chair for most of his life because of a nylon webbing failure while rock climbing.

 

[Scott F]

Thanks for the recommendations guys, and don't worry I'm not going to be hanging from these.
I can almost guarantee that few people are as 'safe' as I am in a tree, I usually WAY over-build things. I'm not going to use the 8mm rope.

Red, I was referring to tubular nylon not flat strap nylon webbing.

 

[kenn1320]

I use the flat strap 1" runner sling as my bridge. What is the concern?

 

[Maustypsu]

Safety question... The Ropeman says it is good for 10-13mm rope.

I think others who have mentioned ropeman in the past have also talked about smaller rope dimensions. Are there other size ropemen? Are you guys using different equipment with these ropes?

And when you guys talk about this Amsteel, is 6mm, really 6mm? I know in braided line they have 20lb test the diameter of 8 lb line... I assume since they are talking in diameter, they really mean that is the diameter. If so, would 10 mm Amsteel weigh a ton?

 

[Ontariofarmer]

The ropeman 2 is good to 8mm rope but is hard on the rope. It tends to tear it , I have two and hate them. Samson Utra tech 9mm is super strong and light... I got some after Red suggested it. It does work with the ropeman 1 but is not recommended. A duck Kong could be used down to 8mm rope. The Samson Ultra Tech is great rope... from Tree stuff

 

[kenn1320]

Im using the ropeman1 on some skinny rope with no issues. If you have an original lw safety harness tree tether, that's what Im using a ropeman1 on as a lineman. I can measure the diameter tomorrow. Tuesday I was installing screw in steps on a large multi trunk tree and actually looped it over a branch and clipped both biners to my belay loop and hung from it. I felt safe, maybe I shouldn't have. Lol No slipping from the ropeman1.

 

[kenn1320]

Here is the skinny rope Im using with ropeman1. Its an old Lw safety harness tree tether. Im using as a lineman belt. I looped it over a branch recently and hooked both biners to the belay loop on my harness and hung suspended while putting in steps on a large multi trunk tree with no slippage.

 

[fawnzy]

Anyone using the petzl rescuecender?


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[redsquirrel]

I use the flat strap 1" runner sling as my bridge. What is the concern?

The concern with webbing (especially the size of runners IMO) is that a small nick in the runner could easily go unnoticed, so a small nick in the runner could lead to a catastraphic failure. A small nick on a piece of rope (climbing rope with an outer sheath and an inner core) is less likely to lead to a catastraphic failure because the rope has the outer sheath. It is the difference between getting down and replacing your gear vs getting down the hard way...

All of that being said I have used the think webbing on the tree saddle for a tether for a long time and I think that is very safe. It is the smaller sized webbing runners that concern me because it is a big difference between a 1/4" cut in a 1" runner vs a 1/4" cut in a 2 inch piece of webbing. If you do a google search you can see the rock climbing guys debate webbing vs rope all the time. Its always so temping because the webbing is so light. If is up to everyone to make their own risk evaluations.

 

[redsquirrel]

Safety question... The Ropeman says it is good for 10-13mm rope.

I think others who have mentioned ropeman in the past have also talked about smaller rope dimensions. Are there other size ropemen? Are you guys using different equipment with these ropes?

And when you guys talk about this Amsteel, is 6mm, really 6mm? I know in braided line they have 20lb test the diameter of 8 lb line... I assume since they are talking in diameter, they really mean that is the diameter. If so, would 10 mm Amsteel weigh a ton?

The ropeman is only rated down to 10mm. Anyone who is using it below that uses it at their own risk.

Yes 6mm is really 6mm.

10mm amsteel wouldn't weight a ton. It is lighter than climbing rope.

Lets go with 11mm for comparison. 100 foot would be 4.5 pounds
http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/Product.aspx?ProductID=872

100 foot of yale bandit is 6 pounds.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1901