sameSame here.
sameSame here.
This is not to condone one sticking as a ‘safe’ climbing method. I think there are a number of safety concerns and much safer ways to climb. I just don’t think there will be many injuries.I have been wondering this to but I think I’m going to lean with there are not going to be more injuries. The truth is that people care about their lives and when they feel nervous or scared they take it easy.
I think it’s easy to start thinking ‘worst case scenarios’, but the chances of a dude having a straight 4 foot fall seems unlikely to me.
Could it happen? Absolutely.
But a number of bad things could have happened to me as well while I used a climber for the past 10 years without being attached to the tree going up and coming down... (I’m much safer now that I saddle hunt because I actually do research and not just ‘what I’ve always done’)
My premise is that guys care about their lives...they will be cautious if they feel uneasy.. therefore the likelihood of someone getting seriously hurt seems less likely than what ‘my rationale’ may lead me to think.
Lol ok done rambling...my 2 cents
No matter what climbing method is being used with a saddle, there is a requirement to be attached to the tree. That is a huge step in the right direction if we are talking about elevated hunting in it's entirety. The overwhelming majority of folks I know using either a climber, lock-on or ladder, never use any type of safety gear. I know folks that have fallen while using all three of those stand types and none were wearing safety gear.This is not to condone one sticking as a ‘safe’ climbing method. I think there are a number of safety concerns and much safer ways to climb. I just don’t think there will be many injuries.
Complacency breeds failure….I have been wondering this to but I think I’m going to lean with there are not going to be more injuries. The truth is that people care about their lives and when they feel nervous or scared they take it easy.
I think it’s easy to start thinking ‘worst case scenarios’, but the chances of a dude having a straight 4 foot fall seems unlikely to me.
Could it happen? Absolutely.
But a number of bad things could have happened to me as well while I used a climber for the past 10 years without being attached to the tree going up and coming down... (I’m much safer now that I saddle hunt because I actually do research and not just ‘what I’ve always done’)
My premise is that guys care about their lives...they will be cautious if they feel uneasy.. therefore the likelihood of someone getting seriously hurt seems less likely than what ‘my rationale’ may lead me to think.
Lol ok done rambling...my 2 cents
One other Question… and I only ask because I like your thought process here…… Do you think a 4’ fall is what is required to generate enough force to injure or kill you?I have been wondering this to but I think I’m going to lean with there are not going to be more injuries. The truth is that people care about their lives and when they feel nervous or scared they take it easy.
I think it’s easy to start thinking ‘worst case scenarios’, but the chances of a dude having a straight 4 foot fall seems unlikely to me.
Could it happen? Absolutely.
But a number of bad things could have happened to me as well while I used a climber for the past 10 years without being attached to the tree going up and coming down... (I’m much safer now that I saddle hunt because I actually do research and not just ‘what I’ve always done’)
My premise is that guys care about their lives...they will be cautious if they feel uneasy.. therefore the likelihood of someone getting seriously hurt seems less likely than what ‘my rationale’ may lead me to think.
Lol ok done rambling...my 2 cents
No. Because it’s not going to be a fall like a test scenario.. Nobody falls ‘staticly’... if I’m going down, it’s going to be ‘dynamically’One other Question… and I only ask because I like your thought process here…… Do you think a 4’ fall is what is required to generate enough force to injure or kill you?
Like I said… I like the way you thinkNo. Because it’s not going to be a fall like a test scenario.. Nobody falls ‘staticly’... if I’m going down, it’s going to be ‘dynamically’
I am trying to gauge if we are standing on the precipice of a real dumpster fire of a year or if I am inflating the dangers/numbers
Had this thought though.. if my chances of injury were .5% climbing with sticks, and now they are 1% with one sticking... is it still worth it? This doubles my chance of injury but is still relatively safe. At what point does it stop being worth it?One other Question… and I only ask because I like your thought process here…… Do you think a 4’ fall is what is required to generate enough force to injure or kill you?
One other Question… and I only ask because I like your thought process here…… Do you think a 4’ fall is what is required to generate enough force to injure or kill you?
Had this thought though.. if my chances of injury were .5% climbing with sticks, and now they are 1% with one sticking... is it still worth it? This doubles my chance of injury but is still relatively safe. At what point does it stop being worth it?
fall factors play huge rolls in generated forces. A 4’ fall at a .5:1 factor won’t hurt nearly as badly as falling 4’ on 2’ of tether slack because you climbed way above your tether or linesman rope. One is way more “static” of a stop than the other. That’s why I told people in the last thread that I don’t do secondary tie ins because if I fell hard enough to make my bridge fail, I’d be as bad or worse off than if I went straight to the ground.If a 4’ fall is enough to break my back like that video that was posted suggests if connected at the hips like a saddle I would rather just hit the ground.
Ding ding ding @kyler1945 for the win in my opinion. Yes even if you suffered minimal injuries the long term effects are cumulative. And for the record I agree 100% that aiders will be the most likely cause of injuries from sticks and especially one sticking. They make using linesman rope more challenging. They aren’t a firm surface to step onto. And the greatly contribute to someone’s inability to advance their tether while one sticking. We do that to increase our gain per stick. The question to me is: Is that gain worth it? You could take 2 extra minutes and continue to use the stick to get to the desired height. Anyway I’ve tried to sit out and thumbs up you creative thinkers and I love hearing the opinions about potential injuries and odds of it occurring as saddles and one sticking continue to gain popularityI think aiders will be more directly responsible, as in root cause of injury, than climbing method(one stick climbing versus any other) or slack in a tether(again, a downstream impact of other procedures/equipment failing).
I think folks undervalue risk analysis. Not safety. Not ratings. Not equipment and methods. But actually understanding risk from a statistical point of view. Being able to pick apart the big picture carefully, does not require one to be super smart. It just requires the right framing, and a few beers, and some honest actors to bounce stuff off of (yourself being the most important one).
I think folks undervalue injuries that don't show up in our mental stat sheets (broken backs, legs, or death). Torn MCL, sprained ankle, broken wrist or finger, all kinds of minor injuries that occur because of the above issues, that really make life tougher down the road. The amount of suffering one will eventually endure, will likely not be worth whatever short term gain they got out of picking one dumb way up a tree over a slightly less dumb way up a tree. This isn't saying don't climb trees. I don't do black and white. Its long and short positions. And people are short on small injuries.
Climbing one stick can be no different from climbing multiple sticks from a safety, time, and effort perspective. Or it can not. That depends on lots of things.
I don't think we'll hear about a significant amount of falls. Mostly because of pride and ego.
I one stick with a lineman’s and have no trouble using it while on the aiders. I do agree that aiders are tricky and will contribute to a number of injuries whether reported or not. I found that when connected to a double step I have much more stability.Ding ding ding @kyler1945 for the win in my opinion. Yes even if you suffered minimal injuries the long term effects are cumulative. And for the record I agree 100% that aiders will be the most likely cause of injuries from sticks and especially one sticking. They make using linesman rope more challenging. They aren’t a firm surface to step onto. And the greatly contribute to someone’s inability to advance their tether while one sticking. We do that to increase our gain per stick. The question to me is: Is that gain worth it? You could take 2 extra minutes and continue to use the stick to get to the desired height. Anyway I’ve tried to sit out and thumbs up you creative thinkers and I love hearing the opinions about potential injuries and odds of it occurring as saddles and one sticking continue to gain popularity
@Dario I think you are going to make a fine helicopter parent some day, haha.
You know I jest. Glad you are intent on helping to make this practice safer. This is my first season saddle hunting so I don't have much experience to speak from, but I feel like it's dangerous enough to make people give solid focus to it and make sure all their i's are dotted and their t's are crossed.
And I'd agree with Kyle...there are probably quite a bit of injuries that aren't disclosed due to pride and ego. Machismo tends to peak in the hunting crowd.