Poll - Would you pay a tax/fee to allow use of spurs/bolts/screw in steps?

[Jammintree]

I don’t have precise answers to your very good questions. But I am certain that legalizing these climbing methods would have measurable negative impacts on processes and industries that already have incredibly slim margins.

 

[PEEJAY]

Glad to hear you've not found any big sheds. I haven't found... Any lol. This will be the first year I really put in effort though

I've got piles of big sheds. Just none bigger than my biggest 2 bucks

 

[Jammintree]

I will add that I have a number of friends that are currently making their living as loggers and foresters. All of them hunt, I’m pretty certain that none of them would support legalizing these currently banned methods. There’s enough good ways to get into trees these days that don’t make it harder for people who are already struggling to earn a living. In southern New England, with some of the best forest products in the world, we have almost no remaining commercial sawmills. All of our lumber gets shipped to Canada where their government subsidizes forest products or it gets shipped to China by boat in metal shipping containers.

And just to be clear, I’m not opposed to these methods of climbing. But I do understand why state land and land owned by forest product producers would want to maintain a ban on them.

 

[kyler1945]

I will add that I have a number of friends that are currently making their living as loggers and foresters. All of them hunt, I’m pretty certain that none of them would support legalizing these currently banned methods. There’s enough good ways to get into trees these days that don’t make it harder for people who are already struggling to earn a living. In southern New England, with some of the best forest products in the world, we have almost no remaining commercial sawmills. All of our lumber gets shipped to Canada where their government subsidizes forest products or it gets shipped to China by boat in metal shipping containers.

I would definitely be interested in those fellas perspective. They are in one of the most dangerous professions. I’d sure like to know how much of a problem it is for them now, and what they might think it would look like if the ability of hunters were expanded.

 

[Jammintree]

I would definitely be interested in those fellas perspective. They are in one of the most dangerous professions. I’d sure like to know how much of a problem it is for them now, and what they might think it would look like if the ability of hunters were expanded.

As someone who has spent a lot of time professionally running a chainsaw, I can tell you that hitting a 1/2” chunk of steel with a chainsaw ruins your day instantly.

My forester buddy’s complain about us leaving paracord presets.

 

[Jammintree]

To sum it all up, you’re talking about adding another category of loss to an industry that is already in a landslide of losses. From increased regulations, multiple species collapsing, a total lack of people
Who are willing to do backbreaking and highly skilled labor for minimum wage…. they will NEVER be willing to let the pubic drill holes and pound metal into what remains.

 

[Plebe]

Chiming in as an arborist...

It is best (for the tree) when bolts or screw in steps are placed to leave them in place. The tree will eventually grow around the hardware effectively sealing off the injury (if the tree is healthy). Every time the tree is re-injured (step/bolt removal, re-drilling, re-screwing, etc.) the tree expends energy to re-seal the injury (or seal new injury) and thus has less energy for other efforts including fending off disease. If enough injury sites encircle the trunk in one location it can greatly reduce vascular flow (think girdling) and potentially weaken the tree due to rot (fungal invasion).

Note - bolting and cabling of trees is standard arboricultural practice where such efforts can help to minimize trees from splitting or having major limb tear out.

As for wearing spurs to prune trees - this is no longer an accepted practice as it does indeed damage trees and can introduce disease that may kill a tree. Not only is the gaff a vector for disease - but so are the holes left behind.

Climbing sticks are not completely benign either. If the bark is damaged and cambium is exposed the tree needs to expend energy to seal the wound before pathogens become an issue.

Depending on the type of land you hunt (public vs private) perhaps a dual strategy may work - climbing sticks down low and permanent screw-ins higher up (out of line of sight) may work.

from:

Tree Damage from Bolts/Screw-in Steps?

Do we have any arborists here who could comment on the risks/damage potential of using bolts versus screw-in steps versus climbing sticks? I'm very interested in drilling a bunch of pre-sets this offseason, but want to be sure I understand the risks to tree health before doing so. Are there...

saddlehunter.com

A bit of Deja Vu

 

[Nutterbuster]

Man, I didn't know the timber industry was so hard up.

Somebody better go and call the "Yella Fella" (Alabama's richest man, lumber mogul Jimmy Rane) and let him know he's gonna have to pawn that big, yella, 10-gallon hat.

Call all them AU forestry undergrads too, and all the kids heading to the paper mill.

 

[Plebe]

Man, I didn't know the timber industry was so hard up.

Somebody better go and call the "Yella Fella" (Alabama's richest man, lumber mogul Jimmy Rane) and let him know he's gonna have to pawn that big, yella, 10-gallon hat.

Call all them AU forestry undergrads too, and all the kids heading to the paper mill.

No hardwood down south it seems

 

[Nutterbuster]

No hardwood down south it seems

Yeah, we cut all that down to make Singer cabinets by the mid 30s

 

[thedutchtouch]

I've got piles of big sheds. Just none bigger than my biggest 2 bucks

Lol I figured but couldn't help making the self deprecating comment

 

[GCTerpfan]

Man, I didn't know the timber industry was so hard up.

Somebody better go and call the "Yella Fella" (Alabama's richest man, lumber mogul Jimmy Rane) and let him know he's gonna have to pawn that big, yella, 10-gallon hat.

Call all them AU forestry undergrads too, and all the kids heading to the paper mill.

As someone who just watched 400+ middle class workers lose their jobs when a paper mill closed 30 min from me and knowing literally dozens foresters, loggers and a few saw mill owners who make low middle class wages I can assure you that the vast majority of the people in the industry are struggling to get by. But you already knew that

 

[GCTerpfan]

But I am certain that legalizing these climbing methods would have measurable negative impacts on processes and industries that already have incredibly slim margins.

Do you have a theory on how MD allows these methods with no measurable impact that I know of? I work with foresters on a fairly regular basis and know many loggers, some of which are family members. This topic has never came up.

I think we all assume that everyone hunts like we do. We are a very small minority, the majority of hunters, at least in MD would never even consider using the climbing methods we routinely discuss on here.

 

[Plebe]

Yeah, we cut all that down to make Singer cabinets by the mid 30s

Fascinating.

Sourcing Wood for Furniture, Then & Now: The Singer Sewing Machine Company - Core77

You'll probably be surprised to hear that, over a century ago, the largest furniture manufacturer in the world was...the Singer Sewing Machine Company. In the 19th and early 20th Century a sewing machine was not the small plastic thing you see today on Martha Stewart, that can be carried from...

www.core77.com

 

[Nutterbuster]

As someone who just watched 400+ middle class workers lose their jobs when a paper mill closed 30 min from me and knowing literally dozens foresters, loggers and a few saw mill owners who make low middle class wages I can assure you that the vast majority of the people in the industry are struggling to get by. But you already knew that

The university I worked at that has been around for 30 years is probably going under this year. 500+ full time degreed employees. Doesn't mean higher ed is hard up for money.

Shoot, if you're a paper mill that's going bust, all I wanna know is what did you spend that toilet paper money on?

In seriousness, all I meant by my comment was it's different everywhere. Down here, I don't think the timber/lumber/paper machine is hurting. Too many log trucks running by my house and too many local punks with their pit vipers and benellis showing up in my duck spots.

That, and the 2022 timber summary AU puts out that I just breezed through looked pretty ok. I'm sure it may be different in states not growing slash pines and cutting them with minimum oversite from regulatory bodies.

 

[kyler1945]

Fascinating.

Sourcing Wood for Furniture, Then & Now: The Singer Sewing Machine Company - Core77

You'll probably be surprised to hear that, over a century ago, the largest furniture manufacturer in the world was...the Singer Sewing Machine Company. In the 19th and early 20th Century a sewing machine was not the small plastic thing you see today on Martha Stewart, that can be carried from...

www.core77.com

Singer island a nice place to spend a day.

 

[kyler1945]

Fascinating.

Sourcing Wood for Furniture, Then & Now: The Singer Sewing Machine Company - Core77

You'll probably be surprised to hear that, over a century ago, the largest furniture manufacturer in the world was...the Singer Sewing Machine Company. In the 19th and early 20th Century a sewing machine was not the small plastic thing you see today on Martha Stewart, that can be carried from...

www.core77.com

Hard to believe it but there were millions of DIY saddle hunters in need of tables for their stitchers.

 

[Plebe]

Hard to believe it but there were millions of DIY saddle hunters in need of tables for their stitchers.

Neat these machines are still in use.

 

[kyler1945]

Apparently while I was out murdering trees all day and making minimum wage…this thread blew up, now that the cats out of the bag on how much money I make I would greatly appreciate it if you guys could set up some sort of gofundme page on my behalf, a week ago I ordered my 4th Kifaru pack and I will be damned on how I will pay for that sucker… just kidding… yes some loggers are broke, others are millionaires, it’s like everything else in this world right now I suppose, I will say being only a part time logger on my own land lol, I definitely appreciate my arborist rate that I make the other 6 months, having owned a tree service business the last 20 years I can tell you it’s been a good run, my body on the other hand has paid the price, but I wouldn’t change a thing if I could, no regrets. Kyle I sold wood the other day, almost 8,000 feet, I just checked my scale sheet and out of 121 logs 5 shipped as veneer, that is a woods run average, I wasn’t jumping around “trophy logging”, if anything I was chasing low grade stuff, it’s my land so obviously I can do what I want, I have a new log buyer and I wanted to test his markets, they were good, so he will get more of my business and this time I expect my veneer average to go up, but you get the idea. @woodsdog2 check out that stick behind my 440C!!! View attachment 80380

I want to be topdog when I grow up.

 

[Jammintree]

Maybe I’m just trying to justify my own bias that I think it’s foolish to allow the public to spike, drill and screw any public trees they see fit.