2tc vs one sticking

[Cbigbear]

It is fun however, I don't think the fun overcomes the additional weight/bulk/stowing of the rappel line. The reason I rappel with a one stick is I had a couple less than fun descents on sticks and aiders in the dark. My reason for checking out 2TC is because I want a light weight, low drag saddle setup to wear while I am doing a scout and hunt. I don't have an issue descending 2TC unless I get too greedy with my foot tether and then can't reach my tether.

I do hear this a lot about aiders coming down one sticking, but why would you need to use the aider? I only use the top step pretty temporarily to move my tether.

 

[Cbigbear]

In our application of rappelling, since it's such a short distance, I personally feel that the only real danger in a rappel is when you rappel on a single device(ex madrock or Fig8) WITHOUT a backup hitch that will truly give you a hands free stop and hold. With one, there is absolutely no danger of bumping or slipping or accidental triggers allowing you to free fall down.

I don’t see the majority using a backup, which was my concern.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

2TC is the same thing as one sticking. 2TC just trades the stick for a rope.

The only real drawback on 2TC is that there's more moves to do than one stick.

 

[Swampwalker]

2TC is the same thing as one sticking. 2TC just trades the stick for a rope.

The only real drawback on 2TC is that there's more moves to do than one stick.

And a bit noisier?

 

[Cbigbear]

2TC is the same thing as one sticking. 2TC just trades the stick for a rope.

The only real drawback on 2TC is that there's more moves to do than one stick.

I don’t disagree, which prompted my question why is one sticking more popular with the masses? It takes more moves but packs better & lighter seems like a fair trade.

 

[CharlieTN]

I can’t think of any situations that would leave me hanging on a short tether other than unconsciousness and not sure rappelling is an option there either.

In general I wonder if rappelling is a false sense of safety. I’ve read about mechanical failures and accidental tiggers, will these become more frequent as the popularity of rappelling increases.

I rappelled for a season while using multiple sticks as a safety aspect instead of using aiders. Ultimate for me rope hang ups & rope management became not worth it. But during that time I found the mechanical device difficult to work under inclement conditions - cold hands & in rain or just high humidity.

Granted, the 2TC system eliminates some of the major concerns with other climbing methods such as stick kick outs, step breakage, and such. When those happen, you are generally falling directly down onto this hard metal, and often sharp object. I’ve seen way too many people have gashed legs, holes punctured into them, and other similar wounds from falling on sticks, no matter what their safety method was. This to me warrants the ability to quickly and easily rappel down at any moment. This is one of the big advantages of 2TC climbing, it eliminates those risks.

Add to that those who are allergic to bees. I’ve seen a few nests in trees as well. Again, the ability to get down quickly is very nice. Not having to switch to a rappel rope, or add a rappel device is very beneficial in those methods.

Thinking a lineman’s rope will keep you safe in the case of a fall is a false sense of safety, pushing equipment outside of its designed specs, is a false sense of safety. Rappelling certainly is not.

As to the dangers, as long as you are operating the system within the manufacturers specs (something that causes most of the problems), have a decent proficiency with it, and pay attention, the dangers are some of the least of any method we have for ascending and descending.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

And a bit noisier?

Some trees it can be a bit noiser like on hickory or sycamore

 

[SNIPERBBB]

I don’t disagree, which prompted my question why is one sticking more popular with the masses? It takes more moves but packs better & lighter seems like a fair trade.

Two things... It was popularized first. First person to the table wins.

Second, the early videos of 2TC are terrible.

I'll throw in a third, monetary reasons. It's a niche of a niche market. There might be more members of my state trapper association than people that 2TC and the margins involved in making of a kit for 2TC won't generally encourage companies to push the method. Especially since a lot of is are more DIY'ish. Even more so when the foot loop part of 2TC doesn't necessarily have to be life support quality.

 

[CharlieTN]

Let me offer up an apples to apples comparison for those who are considering 2TC versus 1-sticking. This comes about because many are looking at it as a very lightweight and compact system, which it certainly can be.

All of these weights include saddle, lineman’s rope, gear strap, pull up/down rope, whatever climbing method is used, and whatever system I’m using for my feet. The only additional things for me to carry would be my weapon of choice and whatever I had in my pack such as kill kit, water, snack, and such.

My 1-stick setup as I normally use it weighs a total of 13.1 lbs. That includes a mini-Shikar with angled scout platform, 3 step webbing aider, AND a ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps, saddle, lineman’s rope, gear strap, rappel rope, etc. That’s the total weight for everything to climb and hunt other than pack and weapon. On most hunts I really like having the ability to move around the tree some for certain shots. If I drop the ring of steps then the weight drops down to 11.7 lbs total.

My basic 2TC setup which includes a 35’ 9mm rappel rope, safeguard, and the ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps weighs a total of 10.91 lbs, dropping roughly 2 lbs from the previous system. If I’m going to be on a longer hunt I have a solo-scout from OOAL with 3 squirrel steps I’ll add changing the weight to 12.3 lbs, not far off from the basic 1-stick system.

If I really want to go in light, then I can drop the rappel rope and go with a 8mm Restech tether and just the ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps. That system, total including saddle and such, weighs just 8.87 lbs. That drops roughly 4.8 lbs off of the 1-stick system. That is a decent weights savings.

What does all this mean? There is roughly a 2lb weight difference between whether I rappel or I reverse 2TC back down. As for bulk, my rappel setup occupies about 2.5x the space of just a tether. The other consideration is whether I want to just use the Ring of Steps, the lightest and certainly most compact option at 1.4 lbs, or if I want a platform for longer hunts. That decision can cause roughly a 2-2.5 lb swing depending on the way I choose to go.

Hopefully this will help someone on the fence about all of this sort through the myriad of opinions and even some chest pounding regarding what system is best, or is needed. 2TC, because of its simplicity and the lack of metal things to fall down on is a very safe system. As to how you choose to come down, that’s personal preference based on what your are comfortable with. Either system has pros and cons depending on your needs. (less weight and bulk compared to ease of descent, especially in an emergency).

Hope this helps. If you need clarification for anything I’ve written here please feel free to ask. Oh, and my saddle is the CGM cobra, so not the lightest saddle on the market and I carry a backband that doubles as my thigh loop for 2TC climbing, a spare carabiner, a Retreev tool from EWO, and a small wrench in case my quick link locks up.

 

[HuumanCreed]

Let me offer up an apples to apples comparison for those who are considering 2TC versus 1-sticking. This comes about because many are looking at it as a very lightweight and compact system, which it certainly can be.

All of these weights include saddle, lineman’s rope, gear strap, pull up/down rope, whatever climbing method is used, and whatever system I’m using for my feet. The only additional things for me to carry would be my weapon of choice and whatever I had in my pack such as kill kit, water, snack, and such.

My 1-stick setup as I normally use it weighs a total of 13.1 lbs. That includes a mini-Shikar with angled scout platform, 3 step webbing aider, AND a ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps, saddle, lineman’s rope, gear strap, rappel rope, etc. That’s the total weight for everything to climb and hunt other than pack and weapon. On most hunts I really like having the ability to move around the tree some for certain shots. If I drop the ring of steps then the weight drops down to 11.7 lbs total.

My basic 2TC setup which includes a 35’ 9mm rappel rope, safeguard, and the ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps weighs a total of 10.91 lbs, dropping roughly 2 lbs from the previous system. If I’m going to be on a longer hunt I have a solo-scout from OOAL with 3 squirrel steps I’ll add changing the weight to 12.3 lbs, not far off from the basic 1-stick system.

If I really want to go in light, then I can drop the rappel rope and go with a 8mm Restech tether and just the ring of steps with 5 squirrel steps. That system, total including saddle and such, weighs just 8.87 lbs. That drops roughly 4.8 lbs off of the 1-stick system. That is a decent weights savings.

What does all this mean? There is roughly a 2lb weight difference between whether I rappel or I reverse 2TC back down. As for bulk, my rappel setup occupies about 2.5x the space of just a tether. The other consideration is whether I want to just use the Ring of Steps, the lightest and certainly most compact option at 1.4 lbs, or if I want a platform for longer hunts. That decision can cause roughly a 2-2.5 lb swing depending on the way I choose to go.

Hopefully this will help someone on the fence about all of this sort through the myriad of opinions and even some chest pounding regarding what system is best, or is needed. 2TC, because of its simplicity and the lack of metal things to fall down on is a very safe system. As to how you choose to come down, that’s personal preference based on what your are comfortable with. Either system has pros and cons depending on your needs. (less weight and bulk compared to ease of descent, especially in an emergency).

Hope this helps. If you need clarification for anything I’ve written here please feel free to ask. Oh, and my saddle is the CGM cobra, so not the lightest saddle on the market and I carry a backband that doubles as my thigh loop for 2TC climbing, a spare carabiner, a Retreev tool from EWO, and a small wrench in case my quick link locks up.

After reading this thread. I realizes that we're trying to convince each other to like something just because WE like it or that our opinions are the right one haha. But honestly there is no perfect method(I can already hear the 2TCers saying yes there is and its 2TC). I have try 2TC and it just not for me, especially when I'm planning to be only 15 feet max next season. I might even just carry an extra stick and have 3 steps aider on each stick.

Stay safe my friends.

 

[CharlieTN]

After reading this thread. I realizes that we're trying to convince each other to like something just because WE like it or that our opinions are the right one haha. But honestly there is no perfect method(I can already hear the 2TCers saying yes there is and its 2TC). I have try 2TC and it just not for me, especially when I'm planning to be only 15 feet max next season. I might even just carry an extra stick and have 3 steps aider on each stick.

Stay safe my friends.

We really tend to get very passionate about certain things but also very close minded. It’s a system, no different than others. It has advantages and it has disadvantages. But personal preference really plays the biggest role in whether it’s right for someone.

My recommendation is for anyone considering any change to their saddle setup, try it after researching it, to make sure you are doing it correctly. Take your time and try it multiple times to really give it a fair shake. Then, if it’s for you, great, if it’s not, then it’s fine as well.

 

[BTaylor]

Another factor in the discussion is the mix of folks and where they are with mobile hunting, esp via saddle. If you are primarily a public land mobile hunter, you prolly want the lightest, most efficient system you can find. The problem with transitioning to a saddle setup is the amount of variables and styles. If you have been doing it for a while, you have likely tried several different options and at a minimum are down to just refining your system. The new folks to saddle hunting generally speaking are chasing weight without the experience to know and understand how the array of choices will actually function on a hunt. That's why I tend to revert to "Do you prefer to sit or lean" as a first question because that will point the way to making good decisions on saddle choice and platform/stand/ROS choice. Those decisions will somewhat narrow the filed in climbing choices, esp if lowering weight is still the primary goal.

 

[Nosaj]

I do hear this a lot about aiders coming down one sticking, but why would you need to use the aider? I only use the top step pretty temporarily to move my tether.

My concern is kickouts and/or dropping the stick in the dark. I had this happen my first year with regular sticks and decided to go one stick up and rappel down my second year and have not regretted it.

 

[Swampwalker]

We really tend to get very passionate about certain things but also very close minded. It’s a system, no different than others. It has advantages and it has disadvantages. But personal preference really plays the biggest role in whether it’s right for someone.

My recommendation is for anyone considering any change to their saddle setup, try it after researching it, to make sure you are doing it correctly. Take your time and try it multiple times to really give it a fair shake. Then, if it’s for you, great, if it’s not, then it’s fine as well.

Not being a 2TCer, I certainly can see the advantage to learning and carrying that what you need to do it (with little weight penalty) if for no other reason to exit the tree in an emergency. As previously stated I believe.

 

[LAKY]

There's parts of every climbing method that I don't like. I want a 0'-30' telescoping ladder that weighs 1 lb, collapses into something that fits in a cargo pocket, bends and attaches to any tree, and goes up or down in less than 30 seconds. The trouble is finding something that adapts to any situation. No climbing method does that. So, you keep searching for something that meets most of the situations you come up against. Then, you find yourself in a situation your preferred method doesn't work, or would be a hassle, so you keep looking.

 

[Chopper070]

the main reason I am moving from one stick to 2TC is slack. when one sticking, you invariably end up standing on the stick with tons of slack in tether and a linesman belt only. most guys just say, that's how it is. but in the case of a failure... you probably would be okay, but it freaks me out.

also, metal. with one sticking, everything ends up hitting the stick. at least for me it did because I am cursed. if there is a way for a rope to get tangled or for something to bang against something else, it happened. no matter how slow or diligent I was.

Yup, my Mad Rock was always banging my stick. I guess that could be eliminated with some type of hitch, but it's not banging anything in my 2TC setup. And like you said, the minimal slack was a huge factor for trying this.

 

[Chopper070]

With your set up do you use both tethers to climb back down? Or do you carry a rappel rope as well?

I just started playing around with 2TC in the yard about a month ago and did my first full climb in the woods yesterday, so take it for what its worth lol. But I'm using my rappel rope as my top tether. I already had it from one sticking and see it as the safest way to be tethered and descend.

 

[Trentrivs]

Yup, my Mad Rock was always banging my stick. I guess that could be eliminated with some type of hitch, but it's not banging anything in my 2TC setup. And like you said, the minimal slack was a huge factor for trying this.

I think this is one of the biggest credits over one stick. Just because I haven’t injured myself yet doesn’t mean it’s not gonna happen. In our safety lessons for fall protection the first step is to eliminate the risk which 2tc does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Plebe]

2TC is the same thing as one sticking. 2TC just trades the stick for a rope.

The only real drawback on 2TC is that there's more moves to do than one stick.

The lower tether can be a moveable aider. Then it’s more like how most people one stick, with the same drawbacks of one-sticking but none of the advantages of one-sticking or of 2TCing with a simple foot loop.

 

[tailgunner]

Sticks ate dangerous...2 tether or die dude