An argument against separate weapon seasons

[bj139]

Good point. But you can usually tell a groundhog hunter from a deer hunter (location, setup, type of rifle)....but most groundhog rifles will drop a deer (I've hunted deer with a 22-250 before). However, folks can have a rifle and be dragging a deer out, so that would separate them from the groundhog hunters.

Yes. I think dragging a deer out would be a dead giveaway.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I hate that they can tell me what I can shoot animals with on MY OWN property. Why do they care if I shoot it with a bow or rifle as long as I obey seasons and limits?

Another excellent point.

Here's a weird one for ya. Deer are wards of the state. The trees on your property are yours, but not the deer. Right? If you mess with the ward, the warden will show up.

Now, you are the ward of say...your livestock. You have legal ownership the same way the state owns deer. Say your cow gets out in the road and somebody hits it. You're liable for damages because you incur responsibility for your ward.

So, how come the state hasn't got back with me over damages to 3 vehicles thanks to their wards running amuck?

Rule number 1, the house always wins, amirite?

 

[CooterBrown]

Lest we forget, equipment rule changes /specific seasons = equipment purchases. Seems about every couple of years the manufacturers/retailers and their lobbyists push through a new rule change and suddenly equipment is flying off the shelves. In Michigan nobody was buying cross-bows when they could only shoot them during rifle season. Now they are everywhere. Straight-walled cartridge rifles were gathering dust in the gun stores until they were allowed in the "no-rifle" zone. Now everybody has a .450 Bushmaster setup. Not saying these things are good or bad just that not all the rules/legislation concerning deer are about managing the herd. How many bows would your shop have sold if there was not a bow-only season?

Very good point.

 

[CooterBrown]

I personally like having the different seasons. #1 it stimulates the economy with people buying different weapons for different seasons. #2 it keeps the interest level up with new things to try(kinda like saddle hunting has). #3 it gives the archers a shoot at deer(close range ) before they are so scared from all of the gun hunters running amuck thru the woods. Here in Alabama we have the ability to carry a gun and a bow so a lot of times I carry both during gun season so if he is close I use a bow if he is out there I us my gun. Our gun season is during the rut so I don't think archers have an advantage. #4 if our gun season was a month longer( to include archery season) maybe we would kill too many deer. The harvest number are smaller for archery season than gun season(even early on in gun season before the rut). I think the thing that leveled the playing field(because all age groups cant shoot compound bows) it when cross bows became legal. Now anybody and everybody can hunt archery season from little kids to older individuals that couldn't use a compound. #5 there are places that guns just cant be used. Like near housing or parks or in certain city limits. So it gives the people hunting these areas more time(3.5 months vs 2.5 months) to get the deer populations down to acceptable levels. Because deer are harder to kill with a bow.

 

[Aeds151]

In my state, bow season is open late sept - late feb. it takes me a half a year to kill a deer with a bow usually. Only having a week or 2 to hunt would take me 10 years of making mistakes and learning compared to 1 season before my first bow kill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nutterbuster]

In my state, bow season is open late sept - late feb. it takes me a half a year to kill a deer with a bow usually. Only having a week or 2 to hunt would take me 10 years of making mistakes and learning compared to 1 season before my first bow kill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What if you kept the long season, and just limited the tags?

Another thought. I don't know that in Alabama you'd get that many more rifle hunters in the woods during that October season. A lot of guys want cooler weather, fewer bugs, and better activity. I think @kyler1945 said the same about Missouri one time. Nobody bothers with the bow season.

I wonder how much it would really change things in most areas. Keep the season lengths, remove the weapons classifications, and divvy up the sacrificial deer.

 

[mattsteg]

I wonder how much it would really change things in most areas. Keep the season lengths, remove the weapons classifications, and divvy up the sacrificial deer.

I suspect not that much in a lot of areas, but possibly dramatically near major population centers.

 

[robstewart]

The only problem I see about a longer gun season is that around where I live there are guys who kill 75-80 deer a year in the short gun season we have and if you extend that then that could have an adverse affect on the population! Granted it is illegal in the first place but it still gets done! And as a matter of fact I have seen less deer this year then ever before and not saying it is because of that just stating we don't need to do something that could adversely affect something we all enjoy! And don't get me wrong not saying I am against gun hunting in any way, I own and enjoy shooting plenty of them, just saying we need to figure out a way to inforce bag limits before we can extend gun season, just my thoughts from what I see around my area!

Tags are tags. If the local management issue X tags then that’s how many can be harvested so I don’t know that the argument holds a lot of water.

The opposition position could be made that the system assumes wasted tags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robstewart]

I probably would have never picked up a bow if it didn’t give me a month and a half of extra hunting. Now, I could probably care less I’ll still bowhunt during rifle season. But I can see a lot of people not bothering trying to tune and setup a bow when they could just pick up their rifle

I got a crossbow because of the fact it turns my local season from 5 days of controlled shotgun hunting into 10 weeks of hunting.

Then I got a compound bow and while I enjoy it, I’m only good to 20 yard right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mattsteg]

Tags are tags. If the local management issue X tags then that’s how many can be harvested so I don’t know that the argument holds a lot of water.

The opposition position could be made that the system assumes wasted tags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course the system assumes unfilled tags in line with history. And for balanced opportunity that's probably best. Depending on numbers it's important to have a "good chance" at success (at a tag-filling rate of 25% 4x as many people get to hunt - unless they close the season upon achieving harvest target)

 

[Owl74]

I personally like having the different seasons. #1 it stimulates the economy with people buying different weapons for different seasons. #2 it keeps the interest level up with new things to try(kinda like saddle hunting has). #3 it gives the archers a shoot at deer(close range ) before they are so scared from all of the gun hunters running amuck thru the woods. Here in Alabama we have the ability to carry a gun and a bow so a lot of times I carry both during gun season so if he is close I use a bow if he is out there I us my gun. Our gun season is during the rut so I don't think archers have an advantage. #4 if our gun season was a month longer( to include archery season) maybe we would kill too many deer. The harvest number are smaller for archery season than gun season(even early on in gun season before the rut). I think the thing that leveled the playing field(because all age groups cant shoot compound bows) it when cross bows became legal. Now anybody and everybody can hunt archery season from little kids to older individuals that couldn't use a compound. #5 there are places that guns just cant be used. Like near housing or parks or in certain city limits. So it gives the people hunting these areas more time(3.5 months vs 2.5 months) to get the deer populations down to acceptable levels. Because deer are harder to kill with a bow.

Your reason #1 is spot on. I'd started hitting a particular piece of public land after last deer season. I put miles and miles of boots on the ground. Sometimes, my scouting was very fruitful and resulted in identifying a tree that I'd like to hunt. Other times, I'd push in to what seemed like a remote spot only to find that there's an unmarked horse trail there, or that remote swamp actually has a lot of human activity there because it's a good fishing spot. Oh well. Good data. However, I get the regulations for this year, and there's only about a week of firearms hunting for the whole season. Then, I see that I'd have an additional week of hunting in December if I had a muzzleloader or air rifle (air rifles can be used during primitive weapon hunts in GA). So... it looks like I'll be purchasing either a muzzleloader or an air rifle to be able to take advantage of all of my hard work.

 

[Phopkins]

I kinda like it the way it is now.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I kinda like it the way it is now.

And I guess there's something to be said for tradition. The times, they are a changin' though, and he not busy being born is busy dying. Hard rain's gonna fall if we can't all come together right now.

 

[CooterBrown]

What if you kept the long season, and just limited the tags?

Another thought. I don't know that in Alabama you'd get that many more rifle hunters in the woods during that October season. A lot of guys want cooler weather, fewer bugs, and better activity. I think @kyler1945 said the same about Missouri one time. Nobody bothers with the bow season.

I wonder how much it would really change things in most areas. Keep the season lengths, remove the weapons classifications, and divvy up the sacrificial deer.

If nobody hunt the bow season then why do you care if we have it then. Asking for a friend that does bow hunt October.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

I hunt with my bow straight through our gun season just cause I like the challenge and usually hunt where gun hunters can't. I do however break out the old 7 mm mag. if I need meat in the freezer.

 

[huntin_addict]

My issue with that line of thinking is you're governing for criminals and not citizens.

Down here we have hogs. Dcnr says that's bad and begs folks to shoot them during deer season. Folks don't wanna mess up a buck hunt for a hog, and ask why not let us shoot them in the summer when it's not deer season. Dcnr says because then you could poach deer. Folks shrug and flip the finger and say since ya don't trust me, figure the hogs out on your own.

My argument has been that if you legalize being out there with a rifle in the summer, you have more eyes in the woods to notice somebody dragging a funny-looking pig out.

Poachers gonna poach, in season or not.

 

[Nutterbuster]

If nobody hunt the bow season then why do you care if we have it then. Asking for a friend that does bow hunt October.

I suppose the root of it is breaking down the "us and them" thing that has taken root in so many minds. We crave tribes even when those tribes aren't really advantageous.

If everybody got along and wished each other the best of success and could leave the egos and biases at the door, I'd probably be indifferent about it.

 

[Recurveaholic]

Tags are tags. If the local management issue X tags then that’s how many can be harvested so I don’t know that the argument holds a lot of water.

The opposition position could be made that the system assumes wasted tags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They don't have tags they shoot them illegally so idk why that doesn't "hold alot of water" but illegal hunting has no place in the hunting community and if you think it does maybe you don't!!

 

[Redhorse3e351]

I personally hate the gun season, mainly because of deer drives! I do hunt gun season, but for years it was only to hunt the hunters that would surely be trespassing through our woods. Although I have taken many deer with a firearm I do not appreciate the kill the same as I do with a bow. Also archery season is way more about practice and skill. There are way too many hunter if that's what you wish to call them that pick up a gun opening morning of gun season and assume that its going to shoot the same way as it did last season. I don't know a single archery hunter who does this even with a crossbow. We all recognize the importance of practice. Unfortunately you cannot say the same for gun hunters. Also if you make a bad shot with a bow that deer is most likely going to continue on, you make a bad shot with a gun, the deer will still likely die and you will likely still have an unfilled tag because the deer outlived your search. I don't hunt for the purpose of killing I hunt for the love of the outdoors and for the respect of the GAME. I love meat in the freezer but I can get the freezer filled at Walmart. If you do the math it cost way more to fill that freezer with venison than it does with beef (guns, archery equipment, stands, saddles, gas, processing, camouflage, the list goes on). As far as hunting dying I don't see that at all in fact I think it is quite the opposite of that statement. There are more hunters in the woods today than there have ever been. The only way hunting is dying is due to land availability which has mostly been diminished over the years due to gun hunters trespassing shooting across property lines, shooting near other hunters, or land owners out in their yards or fields. I am all for guns, but there are a lot of irresponsible gun owners and a lot more irresponsible gun hunters than there are archery.

 

[Nutterbuster]

There are more hunters in the woods today than there have ever been.

I disagree with a lot of your post, which is ok. Individuals can disagree and be respectful. We're on the same team as hunters who wanna see hunting survive and maybe even grow. And a lot of the stuff I disagree with is your opinion, and all I can counter with is my opinion.

But that sentence is not factually correct:

New 5-Year Report Shows 101.6 Million Americans Participated in Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Activities

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service survey reflects a continued strong interest in hunting and fishing and substantial increases in wildlife-watching by people near their homes.

www.doi.gov

.

That link and a quick Google search will show we are losing hunters.

Gun hunters can be ****ty and their behavior can hurt the sport. Archery hunters can be ****ty and their behavior can hurt the sport. Both parties should clean up their acts. I am afraid your mindset towards other hunters validates the concern I expressed in the video that bowhunters looking down on gun hunting and gun hunters is a real concern. There are many, many, many good gun hunters out there who take the sport more seriously than you or I. Painting them with the broad brush as you have is not productive.

I'm sorry, but we may have to agree to disagree here. I wish you the best of luck this season and hope we can remain friendly.