I hope everyone quits hunting so that I can have the woods and deer to myself. Is that selfish?
-
The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
-
We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules
An argument against separate weapon seasons
- Thread starter Nutterbuster
- Start date
Yep. And in a country where large groups and their voices and dollars make an impact, short sighted.
It's pretty crazy - couple a google linksI disagree with a lot of your post, which is ok. Individuals can disagree and be respectful. We're on the same team as hunters who wanna see hunting survive and maybe even grow. And a lot of the stuff I disagree with is your opinion, and all I can counter with is my opinion.
But that sentence is not factually correct:
.
New 5-Year Report Shows 101.6 Million Americans Participated in Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Activities
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service survey reflects a continued strong interest in hunting and fishing and substantial increases in wildlife-watching by people near their homes.www.doi.gov
That link and a quick Google search will show we are losing hunters.
Gun hunters can be ****ty and their behavior can hurt the sport. Archery hunters can be ****ty and their behavior can hurt the sport. Both parties should clean up their acts. I am afraid your mindset towards other hunters validates the concern I expressed in the video that bowhunters looking down on gun hunting and gun hunters is a real concern. There are many, many, many good gun hunters out there who take the sport more seriously than you or I. Painting them with the broad brush as you have is not productive.
I'm sorry, but we may have to agree to disagree here. I wish you the best of luck this season and hope we can remain friendly.
Why We Suck at Recruiting New Hunters, Why It Matters, and How You Can Fix It
Baby boomers make up our nation's largest cohort of hunters, and they've already begun to age out of the sport. Within 15 years, most will stop buying licenses entirely. And when they do, our ranks could plunge by 30 percent—along with critical funding for wildlife management, advocacy for...
www.outdoorlife.com
Decline In Hunters Threatens How U.S. Pays For Conservation
The steady drop is expected to accelerate in coming years, threatening the much-lauded model through which the U.S. has paid for conservation.
www.npr.org
And the age numbers (if you value continuing robust hunter numbers) are a scary ticking time bomb (with some positive signs!). The median hunter today, is darn near 20 years older than the median hunter of 20 years ago. The same group of guys is STILL the predominant age group, only now they're older. 30 years ago...the typical hunter was the guy in his 30s-40s. Nor it's more like 60s (as the guys in their 70s start aging out).
What seems like a positive sign, is that the early-90s dip in participation (youngsters going to school and not hunting for a few years? Seems that there's a bit better participation among young adults, and hopefully retention as well.
How much longer ya' got to live? if not too long, then it's selfish. If you still have life ahead of you, you'll lose out too.
For crying out loud guys. I’M JUST KIDDING!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Messages
- 1,834
Video doesn't seem to be working.
Not knowing the exact content or argument...
I would gladly take a rifle all fall, just like I gladly picked up a crossbow this year when it became legal. I'm no purist and, while I don't begrudge others, I don't relate to the whole "I like the challenge" thing. Just seeing deer is a monumental challenge for me. I average seeing 20 deer a year and that is only since I started archery. I want to kill them and take them home to eat. Not because I can't afford food, nor because I'm a natural food health nut. I just like the idea of it. I'm not really sure why. I have zero expectation of a trophy/wallhanger. It really is just about shooting does for me. It's like how I ice fish all winter for perch to throw in the freezer for year round consumption. It's not glamorous fishing, but I find it strangely satisfying and I like something extra about the meal knowing "I did this".
Our 16 day gun season produces little sightings besides hoards of hunters. That is my biggest reservation on the any weapon argument. It might make me elitist but my only current chance to have some land to myself, or a modest number of hunters is during our current archery season. If it's any weapon I'm guessing the orange army will be ever present and my sightings and kill opportunities will drop substantially. I suspect I'd give it all up if it went down that way much like I've already stopped doing much gun hunting. Ours starts Saturday and while 60,000+ Vermonters are feeling like kids the week of Christmas, I feel little excitement or enthusiasm for it, rut or no rut. Standing in the freezing cold staring at endless barren trees with little chance of seeing anything legal to shoot, and seeing orange and trucks everywhere you look... not my idea of time well spent.
Sorry for the rant... got too used to reading the "I hate...posts "!
Not knowing the exact content or argument...
I would gladly take a rifle all fall, just like I gladly picked up a crossbow this year when it became legal. I'm no purist and, while I don't begrudge others, I don't relate to the whole "I like the challenge" thing. Just seeing deer is a monumental challenge for me. I average seeing 20 deer a year and that is only since I started archery. I want to kill them and take them home to eat. Not because I can't afford food, nor because I'm a natural food health nut. I just like the idea of it. I'm not really sure why. I have zero expectation of a trophy/wallhanger. It really is just about shooting does for me. It's like how I ice fish all winter for perch to throw in the freezer for year round consumption. It's not glamorous fishing, but I find it strangely satisfying and I like something extra about the meal knowing "I did this".
Our 16 day gun season produces little sightings besides hoards of hunters. That is my biggest reservation on the any weapon argument. It might make me elitist but my only current chance to have some land to myself, or a modest number of hunters is during our current archery season. If it's any weapon I'm guessing the orange army will be ever present and my sightings and kill opportunities will drop substantially. I suspect I'd give it all up if it went down that way much like I've already stopped doing much gun hunting. Ours starts Saturday and while 60,000+ Vermonters are feeling like kids the week of Christmas, I feel little excitement or enthusiasm for it, rut or no rut. Standing in the freezing cold staring at endless barren trees with little chance of seeing anything legal to shoot, and seeing orange and trucks everywhere you look... not my idea of time well spent.
Sorry for the rant... got too used to reading the "I hate...posts "!
Last edited:
Reading your post makes me glad I live and hunt in Maine. I hunt mostly private and almost exclusively with bow. Iv'e been at this for a very long time (over 40 years) and feel very confident that I could go out and shoot a doe for meat about any time I'd like even though we have pretty low deer #s compared to a lot of states. I hunt a lot of places that are off limits to the gun hunters and have little to no competition most of the time.Big bucks are what keeps me out there and I hope it never changes. PS. The big bucks usually win. Also, don't worry about the ranting brother. That's what we are hear for. Our significant others get tired of hearing it.
If you tried to watch YouTube yesterday evening,there was a global outage with youtube
The state does not own the deer. They hold the deer in trust for the public. So when you hit the deer with your car, it's your deer.
Now if you really want to have fun, explain this one...
Most states you don't have to have any kind of license to hunt, fish or trap your own land. However, at least in some states, you must have a fishing license to harvest turtles even on your own land.
Last edited:
In Maine you still have to have a license to hunt on your own land. Bunch of jerks running our state.
An alternative to increasing hunter recruitment is increasing hunter education(not the safety course, but about how hunting is related to all aspects of civilization and government and geography), increasing hunter organization, and flat out increasing hunter funding.
call it what you want, I’ll call it what it is. The most organized, well funded movements are the most successful ones in our government. And the reason folks think “there’s too many hunters” in their area, is because their area to hunt is shrinking.
I personally think right now is probably one of the highest points in a whitetail hunter’s timeline. Excellent efficient gear, Long seasons, multitude of ways to kill deer, enormous amount of opportunity in dozens of states, CRP, governments buying back cleared properties that are growing back with prime habitats, urban hunting, you name it. There’s a pile of deer to be kilt right now. Why? M-O-N-E-Y brotha.
smart local governments understand that they can bring in dolla bills by just making land they already own habitable for deer. And buying or leasing cheap land that holds deer. Hunters, instead of jumping in this feedback loop with both feet, bicker amongst themselves and complain about the prices of licenses and tags.
I got news for you - our entire economic system, culture, and civil society is based on growth. Capital generates wealth a hell of a lot faster than labor does. And despite the shortcomings of that system, it’s here for a minute. Why? It brought half the world out of abject poverty.
I inject this otherwise unrelated point into the conversation for a reason. The cost to do things you enjoy is inevitably going to increase. If you want the amount of things that you enjoy to increase, get more money, or broaden your horizons.
call it what you want, I’ll call it what it is. The most organized, well funded movements are the most successful ones in our government. And the reason folks think “there’s too many hunters” in their area, is because their area to hunt is shrinking.
I personally think right now is probably one of the highest points in a whitetail hunter’s timeline. Excellent efficient gear, Long seasons, multitude of ways to kill deer, enormous amount of opportunity in dozens of states, CRP, governments buying back cleared properties that are growing back with prime habitats, urban hunting, you name it. There’s a pile of deer to be kilt right now. Why? M-O-N-E-Y brotha.
smart local governments understand that they can bring in dolla bills by just making land they already own habitable for deer. And buying or leasing cheap land that holds deer. Hunters, instead of jumping in this feedback loop with both feet, bicker amongst themselves and complain about the prices of licenses and tags.
I got news for you - our entire economic system, culture, and civil society is based on growth. Capital generates wealth a hell of a lot faster than labor does. And despite the shortcomings of that system, it’s here for a minute. Why? It brought half the world out of abject poverty.
I inject this otherwise unrelated point into the conversation for a reason. The cost to do things you enjoy is inevitably going to increase. If you want the amount of things that you enjoy to increase, get more money, or broaden your horizons.
Except if I hit a deer outside of the designated season, I am technically not supposed to acquire possession of it. Making it not my deer, but the state's deer.
But the state is really good at only owning things when it suits them. Almost as good as insurance companies are at only insuring things that haven't been damaged.
The state sets rules on how one can acquire possession an animal. Usually hitting a deer with a car isn't one of those methods. Not that I haven't been behind trucks that have tried to hit deer. Can usually get a salvage tag here for turkey and deer.
I'd suggest reading up the on the Public Trust Doctrine which is the fundamental doctrine on management of wildlife and other resources in the US
I'd suggest reading up the on the Public Trust Doctrine which is the fundamental doctrine on management of wildlife and other resources in the US
dlist777
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2019
- Messages
- 711
@Nutterbuster
I agree with this video on one level. I think archery season is mainly about exclusivity. It's the same thing with resistance to Sunday hunting in pa....its mainly guys who don't hunt on Sunday and want to keep you from shooting "their" buck that are against opening up Sundays. They make the same arguments about "tradition"...its convenient for them.
But, if we just made the whole season open, success rates would certainly go up. I'm a xbow guy and I know I'd be more successful if I could hunt with a firearm during what is now the archery season. So, assuming herd management goals, it would seem that tags would have to decline or total season length would have to decline to assure the same overall harvest. I'm not saying it isn't necessarily a good trade off....but we'd have to know what we're giving up in terms of tags and overall days.
I hunted SC a few times and they have a long gun season....in fact I was in SC hunting with a gun on August 15 one year. But, I do hear they have a total crap herd because bucks just can't get big....
I agree with this video on one level. I think archery season is mainly about exclusivity. It's the same thing with resistance to Sunday hunting in pa....its mainly guys who don't hunt on Sunday and want to keep you from shooting "their" buck that are against opening up Sundays. They make the same arguments about "tradition"...its convenient for them.
But, if we just made the whole season open, success rates would certainly go up. I'm a xbow guy and I know I'd be more successful if I could hunt with a firearm during what is now the archery season. So, assuming herd management goals, it would seem that tags would have to decline or total season length would have to decline to assure the same overall harvest. I'm not saying it isn't necessarily a good trade off....but we'd have to know what we're giving up in terms of tags and overall days.
I hunted SC a few times and they have a long gun season....in fact I was in SC hunting with a gun on August 15 one year. But, I do hear they have a total crap herd because bucks just can't get big....
Nope, I quit hunting rifle season except to take my little bro because of the inconsiderate pricks during rifle season who ruin other peoples hunts without consideration. Last year a guy walked within feet of the blind my brother and I were in, and just now a guy set himself up at the opposite end of a field my brother's hunting. Hes a city boy so this is the only time he gets to spend in the woods, only to have to ruined by an orange ***hole each time we go out
Edit: if I sound bitter, its because I am, my little brother gets 2 days, most the time every other year to hunt, and of the 4 days I've taken him out in recent years, we've have a hunter push up on us every time
Edit: if I sound bitter, its because I am, my little brother gets 2 days, most the time every other year to hunt, and of the 4 days I've taken him out in recent years, we've have a hunter push up on us every time
Last edited:
I find @Nutterbuster video hilarious. Consider his YouTube header he is shooting a bow at full draw from an elevated position. Yes, I am one of the faithful 2800 subscribers to his channel. I agree there is no need to separate seasons. There is a need to allow archery only in areas that other weapons would not be the safest choice. Urban areas is where more archery should be allowed to control deer population.
Ok now that I'm back home and calmed down a bit, I'll respond more reasonably.
My issue is that there are so many people that pick up their gun once a year, tromp through the woods with no consideration for other hunters or any sense of woodsmanship. I've nearly been shot on multiple occasions.
People who bow hunt, in my experience, are more in tune with the woods, and take hunting seriously.
My issue is that there are so many people that pick up their gun once a year, tromp through the woods with no consideration for other hunters or any sense of woodsmanship. I've nearly been shot on multiple occasions.
People who bow hunt, in my experience, are more in tune with the woods, and take hunting seriously.
-- Fred Bear
-- Fred Bear
As someone who worked in a shop, I professionally, vehemently, but nonconfrontationally disagree. PLENTY of knuckleheads came out of the woodworks the day before season opener wanting me to tune and even sight in their bow for them.
And Fred Bear was a cool guy, but I trust him to be fair and unbiased about archery about as much as I trust today's saddle hunting business owners to be the same. He was blowing some smoke...he just looked classier doing it.