FrankNess14
Well-Known Member
That’s slick….
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Friction Hitches
- Thread starter Brocky
- Start date
I crossed the biner loop lines going back through to capture the mainline. The other reason for crossing was it looked like without crossing and capturing the line, in a cornell, one side of the loop could potentially pull back through. Like I mentioned, I weighted it several times and broke the hitch under load several times. No functional issues as tied through 15-20 load, break and reset cycles.
John RB
Well-Known Member
@Brocky and friends. I was having a discussion on another network about the well-known Klemheist friction hitch, and a guy commented with this drawing of something similar. Does anyone know what it's called? In a Klemheist, the load loop emerges from the bottom of the helix. But in this one, the load loop emerges off the top of the helix, like the Hedden (sometimes called an upside down Klemheist). Note: I am not endorsing it... i just like to know what it's actually called. Thx.
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Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk
Pubscrub47
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2020
- Messages
- 5
John RB have you ever considered having some of your proprietary hitches drawn out, or had “crag cards” made so there is an off grid permanent description of tying them?
John RB
Well-Known Member
It's a good idea. Maybe a winter project for me! By the way, perhaps just semantics, but i would describe my knots as "original," but not "proprietary". Knots have historically been a "gift to the creative common" and by introducing them publicly, I have done the same. Nobody, including me, can claim them as their intellectual property now. They can be used by anyone.
JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 8,048
I’m surprised @Brocky hasnt sketched them up for you yet like he typically does for hitches
John RB
Well-Known Member
I don't have any tattoos on my body... if I ever get one, I want it to be one of Brocky's sketches of my knots! My wife may expect to get a vote as well!
JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
Hey y’all, dunno if this is the right thread for this but it pertains to friction hitches:
I’m rappelling on 9mm Sterling HTP with a Figure 8 and I have a klemheist as a backup and brake because I like the action of it but also the way it stays dressed compared to autoblock. I have a 6mm cord and a 5mm cord and I can’t decide which I prefer in this application. The PMI accessory cords all seem to have different feels for each diameter. I really like the sizing of the 6mm and for a klemheist or English prusik it’s plenty supple, but it does hold twists easily and is stiffer overall, requiring more load to grab tightly. I’d feel really comfortable using 6mm for tether or hunting prusik. On the other hand, the 5mm is WAY more supple at all times and grabs really well but is harder to release and not as strong, so I trust it for rappelling but not sure I’d love it as a hunting/tether hitch.
Which would you choose?
I’m rappelling on 9mm Sterling HTP with a Figure 8 and I have a klemheist as a backup and brake because I like the action of it but also the way it stays dressed compared to autoblock. I have a 6mm cord and a 5mm cord and I can’t decide which I prefer in this application. The PMI accessory cords all seem to have different feels for each diameter. I really like the sizing of the 6mm and for a klemheist or English prusik it’s plenty supple, but it does hold twists easily and is stiffer overall, requiring more load to grab tightly. I’d feel really comfortable using 6mm for tether or hunting prusik. On the other hand, the 5mm is WAY more supple at all times and grabs really well but is harder to release and not as strong, so I trust it for rappelling but not sure I’d love it as a hunting/tether hitch.
Which would you choose?
John RB
Well-Known Member
On 9mm rope, i prefer 7mm cordage. We are generally looking for a 65 to 80% smaller diameter. 6mm is fine, but consider better cord like Sterling TRC, which is heat resistant. PMI cord is not my favorite Nylon cord. It's rigid and doesn't bend as well as Sterling. That affects the grab characteristics.
JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
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- Nov 1, 2018
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- 8,048
PMI accessory chords are 100% nylon and not heat resistant so I would just make sure you’re keeping 90% of the friction on the figure 8 vs the hitch. Put PMI is fairly cheap so if you get worn/melted spots etc it should be easy to replace.
As far as diameter goes I would think I’d want 6/7mm on that 9mm HTP. I would just ensure that it is capable of catching my weight if my hand let go and able to be broken after weighted. Both of these are easier to accomplish if the hitch is downstream of the figure 8. I like a shorter secondary bridge for this because it keeps it in line versus on the side which can twist you to the side a little if you lose your grip.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2022
- Messages
- 3,034
@DelaWhere_Arrow , pretty sure this is well regarded 7mm if your in the market
woodhuntingsaddles.com
Bluewater 7mm Friction Hitch Cord
Bluewater 7mm Friction Hitch Cord: This is the same rope used to make the VT Prusiks we sell. This is a 7mm hitch cord with a technora cover and nylon core. Approximately 3000 lbs. breaking strength. Color is Tan.
woodhuntingsaddles.com
Called the Carabiner Prusik, originally used by cavers when ascending, they wanted guaranteed grabbing, with the minimum amount of cord on rope so it would follow without tending, three others from the same era. Also John’s first hitch.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 8,048
Exactly, with the hitch on top it is take a majority of the friction required to stop you out so that your friction hitch only needs enough friction for say 20-40 lbs to hold you reliably. This also means that after stopping you only need to break the grip of 20-40lbs instead of your whole body weight.
Alternatively, when the hitch is on top and you want to stop the hitch must take 100% of the load and therefore it must have enough friction to hold your whole body. This can be accomplished by holding the brake hand and coming to a complete stop before letting the hitch catch; however, if you slipped off the brake hand and the hitch had to grab you it’s going to have to catch your weight dropping which could easily be more than your body weight. There’s a decent probability that it won’t have enough friction to hold you. Additionally, unless you have a hitch that can be broken(release) under load the hitch will likely be difficult to break.
Thank you all for the input. Really appreciated. Good looks about the heat treated cord too. I’m comfortable with nylon cords in static applications but I’ll admit the friction/heat was a concern of mine especially with the smaller diameter. I have a gang of cords in my hunting pack of all diameters, including a fresh 7mm length, so I will experiment with placement and get some of the heat-resistant stuff so when it arrives I’m already plug-and-playing just with a new material.@DelaWhere_Arrow , pretty sure this is well regarded 7mm if your in the market
Bluewater 7mm Friction Hitch Cord
Bluewater 7mm Friction Hitch Cord: This is the same rope used to make the VT Prusiks we sell. This is a 7mm hitch cord with a technora cover and nylon core. Approximately 3000 lbs. breaking strength. Color is Tan.
As far as “hitching” above/below the figure 8, I have my hitch placed above currently. Didn’t hate the ability to break under load, and I didn’t hate that there was almost zero slack when transferring load between hitch and f8. Felt kinda like having two tethers. I’ll have to try below though. I have a sling or some 8mm rope I can use as a short bridge. I have also seen the hitch attached to LB loops but I dunno that I like that idea so much. Have to try it all I suppose.
My only advice comes as a former satisfied Klemheist user, buy enough cord to tie the Longhorn Agile that @John RB has on his youtube channel. I was perfectly content with my klemheist until I upgraded tethers and got some new cordage to experiment with. The ease of use between the klemheist and Longhorn agile is night and day and they both are dead simple to tie and dress at the bottom of a tree.
Another option for hitch and fig 8, only need to open the carabiner to add friction, add one more bight on the carabiner to get two finger holding.
A bound up hitch can be freed by using a foot lock on the rope and standing up on it.
A bound up hitch can be freed by using a foot lock on the rope and standing up on it.
Whoa that’s neato AF. Can this be accomplished with any hitch?
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2023
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I started experimenting with an ATC to replace my 8 for descending and it tends the Prusik pretty well on the way up too.
But this combination of hitches would work really well with an 8 too, for spreading out the friction/adding redundancy. Schwabisch up top and an autoblock on linesman loop. Let go of either one and you stop. In pic is 100% not my original idea, but I like it so far. Privileged Bowhunter, somebody else posted his video recently, I can find it if interested, but more for an idea of both A and B from above with your 8. I’m also considering a secondary bridge below instead of linesman but it works fine as long as the autoblock isn’t holding all the weight. If it ends up that way you just dress your Prusik and release some from the autoblock.
But this combination of hitches would work really well with an 8 too, for spreading out the friction/adding redundancy. Schwabisch up top and an autoblock on linesman loop. Let go of either one and you stop. In pic is 100% not my original idea, but I like it so far. Privileged Bowhunter, somebody else posted his video recently, I can find it if interested, but more for an idea of both A and B from above with your 8. I’m also considering a secondary bridge below instead of linesman but it works fine as long as the autoblock isn’t holding all the weight. If it ends up that way you just dress your Prusik and release some from the autoblock.
