Heavy arrow build thread

[weekender21]

Gents your draw length can’t change. Its your wingspan Divided by 2.5 or close to it. Your anchor points may change but not your draw length. Change in draw length 1.5 inches means something was drastically off or is now off. Changing your release, lengthening your D loop or changing your grip does not change draw length. It changes where you anchor.

A new grip most certainly will change your perceived draw length. Shooting side plates vs an adjustable grip can make a pretty big difference.

A grip has material on the shooters side of the bow. How much differs by brand, high/medium/low etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kurt]

Gents your draw length can’t change. Its your wingspan Divided by 2.5 or close to it. Your anchor points may change but not your draw length. Change in draw length 1.5 inches means something was drastically off or is now off. Changing your release, lengthening your D loop or changing your grip does not change draw length. It changes where you anchor.

I watched a tuning video done by Levi Morgan and he recommended that the string/d loop be located some where near the corner of your mouth at full draw to reduce the effect of your face contacting the arrow. My old form had me anchoring behind my ear with the knuckle of my index finger and the string about mid cheek. With the new draw length to the corner of my mouth it required I change my draw length setting on my bow, and find a new anchor point. It's the or close to it that'll get you in trouble. I shoot way better now that I'm not over drawing. That little bit mattered a lot to me, but it did require a change to my bow.

 

[weekender21]

I watched a tuning video done by Levi Morgan and he recommended that the string/d loop be located some where near the corner of your mouth at full draw to reduce the effect of your face contacting the arrow. My old form had me anchoring behind my ear with the knuckle of my index finger and the string about mid cheek. With the new draw length to the corner of my mouth it required I change my draw length setting on my bow, and find a new anchor point. It's the or close to it that'll get you in trouble. I shoot way better now that I'm not over drawing. That little bit mattered a lot to me, but it did require a change to my bow.

You can shoot well with a draw length that’s a little short. It’s VERY hard to shoot with a DL that’s too long.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mattfish]

I guess we will agree to disagree on my draw length statement.

Kurt IMHO what your describing is a draw length was originally to long for you. It appears your draw length is much better now? That’s a great!

Adding material to your grip does not change draw length. It changes anchor points.

 

[KyleND]

I guess we will agree to disagree on my draw length statement.

Kurt IMHO what your describing is a draw length was originally to long for you. It appears your draw length is much better now? That’s a great!

Adding material to your grip does not change draw length. It changes anchor

 

[KyleND]

Adding material to your grip will consequently change the bows brace height and May allow you to fool the bow into thinking you have longer draw ength than you truly do. We are talking very little reward for effort and IMO not worth taking bow out factory specs.

 

[weekender21]

I guess we will agree to disagree on my draw length statement.

Kurt IMHO what your describing is a draw length was originally to long for you. It appears your draw length is much better now? That’s a great!

Adding material to your grip does not change draw length. It changes anchor points.

I’m not sure I’m following you here. If you’re shooting side plates off the riser and you switch to a traditional grip, the additional (~1/2”) directly affects your ability/desire/requirement or whatever to shoot a different draw length mod.

To your point, you obviously didn’t grow or shrink so I follow your logic there. It’s common to shoot different draw lengths with Different manufacturers or even bow models.

And, an extra 1.5 inches is significant. There was obviously something else going on besides grip.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mattfish]

Yes my reference was to growth of wing span or change in draw length.

 

[Bowmanmike]

Wow, changing draw length that much will likely require other changes as well. My experience is, change one little thing in the system and many things might change. I recently made a simple change to a different release, which changed my draw length, which required buying new draw mods for my bow, and buying/building new arrows (different length, heavier spine), which required a completely new setup and retune. The dreaded ripple effect. It can be frustrating...

I know,i will recheck rest timing,peep alignment and rest position. I agree it was a big change but it feels so right. I shot a bareshaft at 20 yd today and it was perfect. I then shot a FP to compare POI and blew up the bareshaft.
What i can't believe is that i shot so short on DL so long. I actually did pretty good that way,but i feel like i already made a big leap in my shootings with the right DL. And now i am close to the wingspan: 2.5 formula.
I switched the mods just before shooting in my techno leagu and just took 4 shots to adjust my sights,then went to shoot the league and had my best score ever.

 

[Bowmanmike]

I’m not sure I’m following you here. If you’re shooting side plates off the riser and you switch to a traditional grip, the additional (~1/2”) directly affects your ability/desire/requirement or whatever to shoot a different draw length mod.

To your point, you obviously didn’t grow or shrink so I follow your logic there. It’s common to shoot different draw lengths with Different manufacturers or even bow models.

And, an extra 1.5 inches is significant. There was obviously something else going on besides grip.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are 100% right. I thought i had 29" mods on my bow,but when i went to the new shop we put it on a drawboard and found out different. I was going to try 29" mods but the matthews dealer only had 29.5 " mods. Turns out they are perfect. And it prooves the earlier point that shooting to short can work ok.

 

[like.2.fly]

I know,i will recheck rest timing,peep alignment and rest position. I agree it was a big change but it feels so right. I shot a bareshaft at 20 yd today and it was perfect. I then shot a FP to compare POI and blew up the bareshaft.
What i can't believe is that i shot so short on DL so long. I actually did pretty good that way,but i feel like i already made a big leap in my shootings with the right DL. And now i am close to the wingspan: 2.5 formula.
I switched the mods just before shooting in my techno leagu and just took 4 shots to adjust my sights,then went to shoot the league and had my best score ever.

That's awesome, and I'm not trying to discourage change in any way. I'm all for it if it helps. We just have to be prepared for that darn ripple... I'm in the same boat. My changes have been extensive and expensive, and still not over yet (maybe never will be). But I'm glad I did them, and am shooting better now as well. I don't compete, but have noticed a substantial difference. I'm enjoying the journey anyway, and I guess that's what it's all about.

 

[Kurt]

I guess we will agree to disagree on my draw length statement.

Kurt IMHO what your describing is a draw length was originally to long for you. It appears your draw length is much better now? That’s a great!

Adding material to your grip does not change draw length. It changes anchor points.

I agree, I was over drawing initially. Never said it changed my draw length, just said I had to change the draw length on my bow. In my case I think we can agree to agree.

 

[Kurt]

I think the original poster was saying the same thing. He didn't change the physical distance he could draw the bow. He was short drawing much like I was over drawing. So the statement that physical draw length doesn't change is absolutely right. I reread his initial post and he did say the different grip changed his draw length but I'm sure he ment the draw length in reference to the bow.

 

[Bowmanmike]

I think the original poster was saying the same thing. He didn't change the physical distance he could draw the bow. He was short drawing much like I was over drawing. So the statement that physical draw length doesn't change is absolutely right. I reread his initial post and he did say the different grip changed his draw length but I'm sure he ment the draw length in reference to the bow.

Yes ,perceived DL is what i meant. It did change the distance between the riser and full draw. I just can not believe I shot with 1.5" less than i needed. The difference is amazing,so hail to building heavier arrows and going over everything on the bow as well.
Now i also have to buy a new rest,since the new bowshop pointed out all the scuff marks on my qad hunter. I noticed it on my fletching,but the other bowshop owner said it's fine. Pfff. The rest is timed right,but bounces back up sometimes since it has no brake.

 

[mattfish]

The difference is amazing,so hail to building heavier arrows and going over everything on the bow as well.

I think this might be something that should be considered as well maybe even before attempting EFOC. I referenced a podcast in another thread from John Dudley and Aaron Snyder where they discussed arrow weight and FOC. Now I know Dudley chooses a lighter arrow and shoots mechanicals. I personally disagree with the mechanicals but its his choice. I am also aware that he has become a celebrity hunter and has endorsement deals. That being said he is also a world champion archer, coach, great bow mechanic, and successful hunter.

Although in the podcast he doesn't tout EFOC he does make valid points encouraging folks to ensure they have good archery mechanics down before they concern themselves with EFOC. Things like cam synch, cam timing, good form and correct draw length are far more important then FOC. Basically ensure you have a solid foundation before concerning yourself with high FOC.

 

[michigandrake]

Got a new bow (50lb PSE Response) last year emergency style right before season .... made my over spined 340 shafts fly acceptable last year. This year I want to let the bow tell me what it wants. Bareshaft, with 250 grains upfront, says a 500 shaft is almost perfect. No way , I have never shot a shaft the light .... so I set up a couple, more beastly, 400 shafts and they fly sweet but are a 600 grain yard dart out of my bow. To get to my 525ish target I am going to have to go 500 spine. It is surprising how little spine this bow wants. I am a little nervous about shooting a 7.3GPI arrow ..... to me that feels like it's on the edge of an unsafe shaft. I don't want a shaft to break and go thru my hand ...... those internet pictures make me queazy. I mean it is a glorified kids bow so maybe I am overthinking it. Do you guys see any problems with a spine this light?

500 spine ..... 500 grains @ 22 % FOC ... my best guestimate on final weight. Looks good on paper. Real world problems I might be missing??

 

[weekender21]

Got a new bow (50lb PSE Response) last year emergency style right before season .... made my over spined 340 shafts fly acceptable last year. This year I want to let the bow tell me what it wants. Bareshaft, with 250 grains upfront, says a 500 shaft is almost perfect. No way , I have never shot a shaft the light .... so I set up a couple, more beastly, 400 shafts and they fly sweet but are a 600 grain yard dart out of my bow. To get to my 525ish target I am going to have to go 500 spine. It is surprising how little spine this bow wants. I am a little nervous about shooting a 7.3GPI arrow ..... to me that feels like it's on the edge of an unsafe shaft. I don't want a shaft to break and go thru my hand ...... those internet pictures make me queazy. I mean it is a glorified kids bow so maybe I am overthinking it. Do you guys see any problems with a spine this light?

500 spine ..... 500 grains @ 22 % FOC ... my best guestimate on final weight. Looks good on paper. Real world problems I might be missing??

You need to provide additional information if you want someone to run numbers for you.

Your draw length
Arrow length
Actual draw weight

With that, I can run the numbers for you. Just send me a PM in case I forget to check this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[weekender21]

I ran some generic numbers:

PSE response @ 50 pounds
Easton Axis SPT 500 spine
225 up front (BH and insert)
28” draw length


28” arrow WAY too weak
25” arrow optimum spine

Obviously I had to guess on a few things but this should give you an idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[weekender21]

Got a new bow (50lb PSE Response) last year emergency style right before season .... made my over spined 340 shafts fly acceptable last year. This year I want to let the bow tell me what it wants. Bareshaft, with 250 grains upfront, says a 500 shaft is almost perfect. No way , I have never shot a shaft the light .... so I set up a couple, more beastly, 400 shafts and they fly sweet but are a 600 grain yard dart out of my bow. To get to my 525ish target I am going to have to go 500 spine. It is surprising how little spine this bow wants. I am a little nervous about shooting a 7.3GPI arrow ..... to me that feels like it's on the edge of an unsafe shaft. I don't want a shaft to break and go thru my hand ...... those internet pictures make me queazy. I mean it is a glorified kids bow so maybe I am overthinking it. Do you guys see any problems with a spine this light?

500 spine ..... 500 grains @ 22 % FOC ... my best guestimate on final weight. Looks good on paper. Real world problems I might be missing??

PM sent with details, .500 is much too weak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[michigandrake]

Thanks @weekender21. I've been telling myself that but the bow just seems to be taking me that direction. The information you PM'ed me is in the neighborhood I thought I would end up with a 400 spine at 500ish grain. I am going to go back and recheck my bow. Maybe I just stink at bareshaft tuning. My archery range is melting out so maybe this week I can punch some paper and get a better idea of what I have going on.