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Heavy arrow build thread

michigandrake said:
Thanks @weekender21. I've been telling myself that but the bow just seems to be taking me that direction. The information you PM'ed me is in the neighborhood I thought I would end up with a 400 spine at 500ish grain. I am going to go back and recheck my bow. Maybe I just stink at bareshaft tuning. My archery range is melting out so maybe this week I can punch some paper and get a better idea of what I have going on.
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You’re very welcome.

Arrows come off the string violently. Depending on your distance to the paper it’s not uncommon to get false positives. Start with a shaft that’s optimum-stiff and go from there. If your bow is tuned getting a stiff shaft to shoot well is not usually a problem.

Stay safe saddle hunters!


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The Ranch fairy once told me that spine charts and calculator results can be ignored. They are just rough guidelines anyway. Experiment and listen to what your arrows tell you, as it may be something very different. My experience so far tells me this may be mostly true, as my current combo of shaft spine, head weight, and draw length/weight is not aligning with the charts. But they are flying great.
 
like.2.fly said:
The Ranch fairy once told me that spine charts and calculator results can be ignored. They are just rough guidelines anyway. Experiment and listen to what your arrows tell you, as it may be something very different. My experience so far tells me this may be mostly true, as my current combo of shaft spine, head weight, and draw length/weight is not aligning with the charts. But they are flying great.
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I agree if you’re arrow shows too stiff. No one would recommend ignoring the chart if your spine is too weak. That wouldn’t be a responsible recommendation anyway.


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weekender21 said:
You’re very welcome.

Arrows come off the string violently. Depending on your distance to the paper it’s not uncommon to get false positives. Start with a shaft that’s optimum-stiff and go from there. If your bow is tuned getting a stiff shaft to shoot well is not usually a problem.

Stay safe saddle hunters!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I believe I'm on the stiff side with my VAP 250s with 380gr up front cut at 28" out of my 27" draw 70# Reign 6. But it's tuned and shooting great. I just taped on the A&A feathers and will be doing a side by side comparison with my 2" blazer vanes this week. Feathers vs vanes. on a efoc arrow. Very exciting. Don't worry @swampsniper I'm keeping what you said on my mind as I compare these short fletch.
 
This discussion on arrow weight is interesting. I think that one must keep in mind their quarry before committing to a definitive weight goal. I remember 40+ years ago the discussion of arrow weight and African game. Recurves and longbows have taken down elephants and Cape buffalo, grizzlies and most all other big game. There is no doubt the heavy vs light argument has merits as far as bow vibration and the extreme penetration needed for dangerous game. I would simply point one to a good kinetic energy and momentum calculator to see what the actual arrow energy will be before any commitments.

Since range estimation is generally the main culprit in bad shots it only makes sense that a flatter trajectory will help (as in rifles). Speed and weight determine kinetic energy and momentum, which is directly related to penetration. The former world record black bear was killed with a 45lb. recurve. Be accurate, have sharp blades and most white tails will expire in a timely manner.

If one were to make only broadside lung shots then they would not need a modern speed demon, but many hunters will not pass on a less than perfect angle and often anything less than a perfect shot will require a good tracker. Indians did a great job getting close and making good shots with bows that most modern hunters would deem underpowered. Accuracy and patience are more critical than kinetic energy and momentum, imo.
 
So this year I've decided to put time into building my own arrows.

I, being gifted with T-Rex arms, have a DL somewhere between 25.5 and 26. 27" placed the point where I wanted it to be (just beyond my digits), so that's the length I went with. I went with the Easton Hexx 330. 330 spine seemed to be a good starting point based on Easton's charts.

I ordered a field point test pack from Addictive Archery (they had 9/32 points when most others did not). It was a set of 125, 145, and 175. Assembled the arrows with the full brass inserts (75gr), and proceeded to shoot arrows bareshaft through paper... 145 seemed to shoot the best (I hope the others that didn't shoot as nice were not due to poor technique).

I then shot bareshaft again, rotating the nock until it was in a position that gave the best flight. Then I fletched them left helical (except for one I'm leaving bare just in case), and the results are...

Easton Hexx 330 7.9 GPI 27" (nock throat to insert)
75gr Easton Brass Inserts
Stock H Nock
Bohning 4" reflective wrap
AAE Max Stealth, Left Helical 3 fletch
145gr point weight
484gr total weight
~18.5% FOC
227 FPS out of Bowtech Realm 65 lb 25.5" DL Comfort Setting

I was surprised of how little speed I lost. I gained something like 25% in weight, but lost only around 5% in speed (hopefully my chrono results were right... my chronograph didn't have 9mm holes when I checked the old arrows!)

I've gotten 150gr VPAs to see how well they fly in this setup.

Questions yet to be answered are...
1) Lighted nock, or no?
2) Will the 145gr points fly the same as 150gr broadheads? Should I try to get them closer in weight?
3) Should I try going to the next stiffer spine (240) and try to get even heavier"
4) Should I find a heavier insert to use more common 100gr heads?
 
Just my opinion:

1. No. The heavier nock will reduce your FOC. Why do that after the effort you made.

2. 5 grains is negligible

3. Up to you if you want to see how they fly.

4. Makes sense to use heavier insert or weights so you can use the readily available heads out there.
 
After page 7, I made a jump to 14. There wasn't much traction gained on spinning inserts, so I'll comment on some things in this thread that are being over-complicated.

Spinning inserts allow the shaft to gain rotational speed faster, allowing them to stabilize flight in a shorter distance. However, this implies the inserts are spinning perfectly, unimpeded by hot melt, dried blood, dirt, excessive friction, etc.

A free spinning shaft will not aid in the rotational power of a single bevel broadhead. The forward momentum is what provides the massive majority of twisting force. However, think about the mass of the arrow shaft spinning, aiding in the rotation of the broadhead. Small, but measurable. On a much larger scale, the "Tea Cup" carnival ride pins you to the back of your seat when spinning fast. This same power is applied to your broadhead at initial impact with a fixed insert.

More steeply angled helical vanes DO increase drag and decrease arrow speed and max distance. Imagine if a plane wing was straight/parallel (that's a fighter jet, minimal lift force but very fast) or this / (exaggerated 747 wing or helical vane. Generates lift, or spin in an arrow). If the vane was very step helical, like capital I, it would literally be as aerodynamic as a brick wall. Straight vanes will ALWAYS be faster than helical vanes on the same arrow, but won't stabilize as well.

Five grains is insignificant to most whitetail hunter shooting 30 yards. In Bowmar's case, 5 grains can mean 4 inches of drop while shooting 65 yards at a water buffalo. If you want to nitpick five grains, weigh your individual vanes, nocks, inserts, and amount of glue or hotmelt you are using. there can be significant variances in those that add up to a lot with a finished arrow.

Also, Kurt, Fury From the Sky! I left 1-508 last year.
 
TJutte said:
After page 7, I made a jump to 14. There wasn't much traction gained on spinning inserts, so I'll comment on some things in this thread that are being over-complicated.

Spinning inserts allow the shaft to gain rotational speed faster, allowing them to stabilize flight in a shorter distance. However, this implies the inserts are spinning perfectly, unimpeded by hot melt, dried blood, dirt, excessive friction, etc.

A free spinning shaft will not aid in the rotational power of a single bevel broadhead. The forward momentum is what provides the massive majority of twisting force. However, think about the mass of the arrow shaft spinning, aiding in the rotation of the broadhead. Small, but measurable. On a much larger scale, the "Tea Cup" carnival ride pins you to the back of your seat when spinning fast. This same power is applied to your broadhead at initial impact with a fixed insert.

More steeply angled helical vanes DO increase drag and decrease arrow speed and max distance. Imagine if a plane wing was straight/parallel (that's a fighter jet, minimal lift force but very fast) or this / (exaggerated 747 wing or helical vane. Generates lift, or spin in an arrow). If the vane was very step helical, like capital I, it would literally be as aerodynamic as a brick wall. Straight vanes will ALWAYS be faster than helical vanes on the same arrow, but won't stabilize as well.

Five grains is insignificant to most whitetail hunter shooting 30 yards. In Bowmar's case, 5 grains can mean 4 inches of drop while shooting 65 yards at a water buffalo. If you want to nitpick five grains, weigh your individual vanes, nocks, inserts, and amount of glue or hotmelt you are using. there can be significant variances in those that add up to a lot with a finished arrow.

Also, Kurt, Fury From the Sky! I left 1-508 last year.
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I had a discussion with Hoss from Ethics, and his bottom line on spinning inserts was similar to your second paragraph. He said they will correct for subpar arrow flight, but at a cost of moving parts that can fail. The takeaway for me was that if you’re willing to put the time into tuning your bow and each arrow, they’re not worth the risk of mechanical failure.

I also discussed arrow drop with him, since I wasn’t seeing much drop (under 30 yards) even when adding significant amounts of weight (> 200 grains) to my arrow. He said increasing your FoC along with tuning your arrows will mitigate some of the expected drop, at least at shorter distances. I can’t see even 50 grains making that much of a difference unless you’re shooting a very low poundage bow and/or shooting long distances.
 
I got my heavy arrows put together. black eagle 300 spine cut to 29.5,42 grain brass insert,30+50 grain screw in weights,4" vanes and lighted nocks put them at 540 grains. This is with a 100 gr tip,i still have to decide on a 2 blade single bevel broadhead. I can go with anything up to 200 or even more weight for a broadhead and if it affects arrow flight i can remove the screw in weights to not push the arrow weight too far over 600 grains.
I had to adjust my sights quite a bit,not much for 20 but more for 30 and lots for 40. But i was shooting a 350 grain total weight arrow before,so no surprise that these drop more. I shoot 60# at 29.5 DL.
I love how quiet the bow shoots and how well these arrows fly. I practiced with some 100 gr montec g5 heads and stacked the BS,FP and BH at 20 yds.
I cant wait to put one of these through a deer.
 
I built up an arrow setup with a 350 spine to get to about 640 grains and 31% foc. Little 3d printed fletching. Gonna test against a 400 spine to see what weight I'd end up tuning at for a little smoother trajectory out to 25/30.

Compound I'm sticking with the 500-550 grains I've come to like. Grizzlystik setup worked great thr last couple years. This year I've got some Vector HMR 300s built to 535gr 12-13% foc and some RIP tko 250 built to 540gr 19-20% foc. Getting about 260-270fps with those.
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How do you like those FOB's for hunting? Do you find they stabilize arrow flight better than conventional fletchings or do you prefer them due to ease of installation?
 
slonstdy said:
How do you like those FOB's for hunting? Do you find they stabilize arrow flight better than conventional fletchings or do you prefer them due to ease of installation?
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I like them. Easy to use. Less crosswind profile and good stability. Comparison wise there are a million different vane profiles that all act differently. It wont have the same stability as 4x4in vanes with heavy helical for example but better than 3 fletch target vanes by quite a bit. Noise wise they were about equivalent to a 4 fletch q2i fusion Xii but slightly louder than 3 fletch with a long, low profile vane.

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Good to know thanks. Do you think a modded fob would slide towards the nock during flight if glue wasn't used?
 
I don't want to be premature with this, but speaking up now might me helpful to someone.
I might be selling my Alaska Bowhunting Supply Sitka tapered shafts. At this point, I have not determined if they will work with my new arrow rebuild. They are cut to 28" and may be under spined for what I will need.
Some are brand new, bare, unused. And some are fletched and lightly used. And a few have been stump shot hundreds of times.
They may be for sale within a few weeks, in case this helps someone that's shopping for new shafts.
PM me if you want to discuss any details.
 
DanielB89 said:
I am curious as to how many are changing their arrow set ups for this coming year. I thought this might be a cool place to discuss the x's and o's of the arrow build. I just received my next arrows for the coming year.

Black Eagle Spartan .250's.
10 GPI
26 grain SS insert
19 grains nock and collar.


I am thinking i'll have to keep my arrows 30" to have adequate broad head clearance(one head I really want to shoot has just over 2" fixed cutting diameter).

If my calculations are correct, i'll have around 365 grains in arrow shaft, fletchings, insert, and nock. I plan on using anything from 100 grain Makos(been using for 2 years), all the way up to the 190 grain tree sharks. Really hoping the same arrow will accommodate both!

Anyone else have anything in the works?
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I am moving in the heavier arrow direction also. My understand after watching alot of youtube videos of the Ranch Fairy is you want high FOC,
weight forward on the front of arrow shaft. He has studied Dr. Ashbey's research of many years indicating that heavy weight forward of arrow shaft improves arrow flight and penetration. If you are not in the very heavy FOC range, say 700 gr. plus I believe your 250 shaft may be too stiff ? I would start with 150-200 gr. broad head is where as a target. You can buy the ranch fairy special which has field points from 100 gr. -600gr. and test shafts as per video with not fletching and see which weigh flies like a dart. Then you've found you perfect weight for your combination. Good Luck, keep us posted !
 
Wait,what? 100 to 600 grain field points? what do those look like? I got the kit from ethics archery from 200 to 300,those look wild for FP.
Is your information correct? A 600 grain field point would wreck underspined arrows.
 
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