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How does one go about cupping a saddle hunter's rear?

I personally feel more of a hug from a fleece saddle than a cup.
 
have a look here you can see how you get the shape but basically the curve pieces are placed good sides in and stitch along the arch, open out and do one more stitch this then gives you what you desire, regards wayne
 
Good discussion. I've been thinking about this quite a bit as I'm starting the build of my third DIY saddle. My thoughts, and most or maybe ALL of this has already been mentioned above, are that there a few ways to address cupping. This list might just be a recap of what's already been said, but here goes:
1. Elasticity of materials - seat materials like fleece and mesh conform to your shape so they cup your butt.
2. Panels - I think of this like constructing the seat like a basketball where multiple panels sewn together along convex curves form part of a sphere. We sit on the inside of the sphere like with the Kestrel and H2 Slingshot.
3. Angle of the seat - how much the bottom strap that goes under your butt pulls upward in relation to the top strap. I think this can be affected in a few ways:
a. Strap adjusters on the sides like the Kestrel and Mantis have
b. Bridge that stays in place on the bridge loops using either girth hitches or channels/notches like the Phantom has. Position the bridge lower on the bridge loops and it will pull the bottom strap of the saddle upward, thus changing the angle of the seat.
c. Independent top and bottom sections like the Wraptor/Anderson, Flex and Tactisaddle.

I'm sure there are ways to shape and position the seat portion on the supporting straps so that it pulls the bottom up more (adjusting the angle of the seat), but that seems like it wouldn't be very adjustable...
 
There’s a LOT of different shapes that can be made from sewing patterns. I think chalking up any adjustment or advancement to “kool-aid” without trying it is just short sighted.

The rear of the phantom looks to have a significantly deeper cup to it than the mantis, the flatter sit drag type seat was one of the complaints on the original. The straps seem to be stiffer as well, which may spread the weight better.

The comfort channels will definitely add a level of adjustability on pressure that hasn’t been seen in a production saddle yet. The adjustable tether, while not a new concept, is done in a very unique way. In fact, there was a lot of discussion and argument of wether or not it was even possible.

I, for one, applaud that one of our manufacturers keeps pushing themselves to make improvements across their product offerings. All this tribalistic bashing is obnoxious if I’m being honest. I’d love to see, and would fully support, some of the other manufacturers innovating some as well.
 
There’s a LOT of different shapes that can be made from sewing patterns. I think chalking up any adjustment or advancement to “kool-aid” without trying it is just short sighted.

The rear of the phantom looks to have a significantly deeper cup to it than the mantis, the flatter sit drag type seat was one of the complaints on the original. The straps seem to be stiffer as well, which may spread the weight better.

The comfort channels will definitely add a level of adjustability on pressure that hasn’t been seen in a production saddle yet. The adjustable tether, while not a new concept, is done in a very unique way. In fact, there was a lot of discussion and argument of wether or not it was even possible.

I, for one, applaud that one of our manufacturers keeps pushing themselves to make improvements across their product offerings. All this tribalistic bashing is obnoxious if I’m being honest. I’d love to see, and would fully support, some of the other manufacturers innovating some as well.

I agree with you here. The deeper seat on the phantom got me thinking about this thread in the first place. The phantom and mantis are both single panel saddles and yet have a different depth to them. The product info says the phantom is actually less wide than the mantis yet is more cupped. I am wondering how this is achieved without panels. I thought maybe its the way the entire pattern cut. The top of the saddle is almost horizontal while the bottom is much more curved. That should help wrap under the legs and around the butt better I would think. I will post a few screenshots from the video that got me thinking about this
 
Good discussion. I've been thinking about this quite a bit as I'm starting the build of my third DIY saddle. My thoughts, and most or maybe ALL of this has already been mentioned above, are that there a few ways to address cupping. This list might just be a recap of what's already been said, but here goes:
1. Elasticity of materials - seat materials like fleece and mesh conform to your shape so they cup your butt.
2. Panels - I think of this like constructing the seat like a basketball where multiple panels sewn together along convex curves form part of a sphere. We sit on the inside of the sphere like with the Kestrel and H2 Slingshot.
3. Angle of the seat - how much the bottom strap that goes under your butt pulls upward in relation to the top strap. I think this can be affected in a few ways:
a. Strap adjusters on the sides like the Kestrel and Mantis have
b. Bridge that stays in place on the bridge loops using either girth hitches or channels/notches like the Phantom has. Position the bridge lower on the bridge loops and it will pull the bottom strap of the saddle upward, thus changing the angle of the seat.
c. Independent top and bottom sections like the Wraptor/Anderson, Flex and Tactisaddle.

I'm sure there are ways to shape and position the seat portion on the supporting straps so that it pulls the bottom up more (adjusting the angle of the seat), but that seems like it wouldn't be very adjustable...
I think this is a great summary but I would also add that the template shape of the fabric/mesh plays a significant role as well.
 
Screen Shot 2020-01-10 at 4.34.06 PM.pngScreen Shot 2020-01-10 at 4.33.55 PM.png

Here is what I am talking about. The top part of the body has a much more gentle curve than the bottom and the ends are cut straight where the bridge loops exit since this is wasted
 
I agree with you here. The deeper seat on the phantom got me thinking about this thread in the first place. The phantom and mantis are both single panel saddles and yet have a different depth to them. The product info says the phantom is actually less wide than the mantis yet is more cupped. I am wondering how this is achieved without panels. I thought maybe its the way the entire pattern cut. The top of the saddle is almost horizontal while the bottom is much more curved. That should help wrap under the legs and around the butt better I would think. I will post a few screenshots from the video that got me thinking about this

Think it of like the difference between cutting the panel flat on the table between the straps vs stretching a fabric around a basketball and then cutting the fabric to the shape of the straps. You end up with slack in the system to whatever shape you are stretching around. You can then spread that piece back out and make a stencil. The piece you cut will be significantly larger than the gap between the straps need, thus giving you a cupping effect.
 
Think it of like the difference between cutting the panel flat on the table between the straps vs stretching a fabric around a basketball and then cutting the fabric to the shape of the straps. You end up with slack in the system to whatever shape you are stretching around. You can then spread that piece back out and make a stencil. The piece you cut will be significantly larger than the gap between the straps need, thus giving you a cupping effect.

That is a good point and a good way to think about what needs to happen in order to get the right fit. However, the problem I see, taking your example, is that to wrap a basketball you will have inevitable folding unless the fabric is cut (panels). Yet these single panel saddles seem to do a pretty good job wrapping around and appear to lay flat in the video as far as I can tell. Some of this must be attributed to the stretch/elasticity of the materials. Do you think if you were to lay the template out with and without the webbing attached it would lay the same way? I doubt it does on the kestrel and it definitely does on the sit drag and mantis. I am curious if the phantom has a sculpted shape by the way it is stitched onto the webbing (as in the outer measurement of the mesh material where it meets the webbing is greater than the length of the webbing) or if it would lay flat as well.
 
That is a good point and a good way to think about what needs to happen in order to get the right fit. However, the problem I see, taking your example, is that to wrap a basketball you will have inevitable folding unless the fabric is cut (panels). Yet these single panel saddles seem to do a pretty good job wrapping around and appear to lay flat in the video as far as I can tell. Some of this must be attributed to the stretch/elasticity of the materials. Do you think if you were to lay the template out with and without the webbing attached it would lay the same way? I doubt it does on the kestrel and it definitely does on the sit drag and mantis. I am curious if the phantom has a sculpted shape by the way it is stitched onto the webbing (as in the outer measurement of the mesh material where it meets the webbing is greater than the length of the webbing) or if it would lay flat as well.

There is a lot more compression ability to mesh than there is in cordura. I have a feeling you would have to do multiple panels of a stiffer fabric to achieve the same effect.
 
There is a lot more compression ability to mesh than there is in cordura. I have a feeling you would have to do multiple panels of a stiffer fabric to achieve the same effect.

Nice point, thank you for your insight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
@IkemanTX beat me to it. If I were trying to replicate, I would try to form the mesh over something. A pillow, balled up sweatshirt, something like that. I would guess a number of mock ups happened before getting it right.
 
Nice. You guys have definitely got me thinking. I totally agree that shape and relation to the straps can have an effect but was having trouble visualizing how to design it in on purpose. I agree as well that mesh with some give and take (elasticity) would work better for helping to form a cup shape by pulling against certain sections of the frame of the saddle. Now to figure out how to make this happen purposefully!
 

In this video @g2outdoors talks about the chassis shape a bit more and it looks like I was wrong and those screenshots from the phantom video are apparently stock footage from a mantis not a phantom which apparently has a "football shape" according to Greg.
 
Just heard in the Southern Outdoorsman interview on youtube that the phantom does not lay flat when laid out on a table unlike the mantis. So there is some shape built into the structure. They have some fancy term like "patented saddle chassis design" but there is a specific way they are manufacturing the cup into these things.
 
What is the difference in cupping using a saddle chassis design (football shape) vs multiple panels? I'm far from an expert, but I know my saddle doesn't lay flat on a table and it feels like it cups my backside. I haven't gone as far as taking a pic of my cupped backside in a tree to verify.

Is it just a different way to achieve the same result?
 
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