Come on, he's demonstraetd that already . . .Please, oh please don't let @Blinginpse see the title of this thread...
Least u ain't forgotten loCome on, he's demonstraetd that already . . .
Some things you just can't unsee . . . no matter how hard you try.Least u ain't forgotten lo
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Some things you just can't unsee . . . no matter how hard you try.
There’s a LOT of different shapes that can be made from sewing patterns. I think chalking up any adjustment or advancement to “kool-aid” without trying it is just short sighted.
The rear of the phantom looks to have a significantly deeper cup to it than the mantis, the flatter sit drag type seat was one of the complaints on the original. The straps seem to be stiffer as well, which may spread the weight better.
The comfort channels will definitely add a level of adjustability on pressure that hasn’t been seen in a production saddle yet. The adjustable tether, while not a new concept, is done in a very unique way. In fact, there was a lot of discussion and argument of wether or not it was even possible.
I, for one, applaud that one of our manufacturers keeps pushing themselves to make improvements across their product offerings. All this tribalistic bashing is obnoxious if I’m being honest. I’d love to see, and would fully support, some of the other manufacturers innovating some as well.
I think this is a great summary but I would also add that the template shape of the fabric/mesh plays a significant role as well.Good discussion. I've been thinking about this quite a bit as I'm starting the build of my third DIY saddle. My thoughts, and most or maybe ALL of this has already been mentioned above, are that there a few ways to address cupping. This list might just be a recap of what's already been said, but here goes:
1. Elasticity of materials - seat materials like fleece and mesh conform to your shape so they cup your butt.
2. Panels - I think of this like constructing the seat like a basketball where multiple panels sewn together along convex curves form part of a sphere. We sit on the inside of the sphere like with the Kestrel and H2 Slingshot.
3. Angle of the seat - how much the bottom strap that goes under your butt pulls upward in relation to the top strap. I think this can be affected in a few ways:
a. Strap adjusters on the sides like the Kestrel and Mantis have
b. Bridge that stays in place on the bridge loops using either girth hitches or channels/notches like the Phantom has. Position the bridge lower on the bridge loops and it will pull the bottom strap of the saddle upward, thus changing the angle of the seat.
c. Independent top and bottom sections like the Wraptor/Anderson, Flex and Tactisaddle.
I'm sure there are ways to shape and position the seat portion on the supporting straps so that it pulls the bottom up more (adjusting the angle of the seat), but that seems like it wouldn't be very adjustable...
I agree with you here. The deeper seat on the phantom got me thinking about this thread in the first place. The phantom and mantis are both single panel saddles and yet have a different depth to them. The product info says the phantom is actually less wide than the mantis yet is more cupped. I am wondering how this is achieved without panels. I thought maybe its the way the entire pattern cut. The top of the saddle is almost horizontal while the bottom is much more curved. That should help wrap under the legs and around the butt better I would think. I will post a few screenshots from the video that got me thinking about this
Think it of like the difference between cutting the panel flat on the table between the straps vs stretching a fabric around a basketball and then cutting the fabric to the shape of the straps. You end up with slack in the system to whatever shape you are stretching around. You can then spread that piece back out and make a stencil. The piece you cut will be significantly larger than the gap between the straps need, thus giving you a cupping effect.
That is a good point and a good way to think about what needs to happen in order to get the right fit. However, the problem I see, taking your example, is that to wrap a basketball you will have inevitable folding unless the fabric is cut (panels). Yet these single panel saddles seem to do a pretty good job wrapping around and appear to lay flat in the video as far as I can tell. Some of this must be attributed to the stretch/elasticity of the materials. Do you think if you were to lay the template out with and without the webbing attached it would lay the same way? I doubt it does on the kestrel and it definitely does on the sit drag and mantis. I am curious if the phantom has a sculpted shape by the way it is stitched onto the webbing (as in the outer measurement of the mesh material where it meets the webbing is greater than the length of the webbing) or if it would lay flat as well.
There is a lot more compression ability to mesh than there is in cordura. I have a feeling you would have to do multiple panels of a stiffer fabric to achieve the same effect.