Predator First Impression

[Tjraley2]

I don't find it necessary to stand on the post and re-cam it. But I only weight 165 lbs so that may be the difference. When I attach the platform to the tree, I make sure the strap is as tight as humanly possible with the platform in the transport position. Then I push down on the post with one hand as hard as I can and cam the platform down with my other hand. At this point it's rock solid for me.

I don't have a Predator yet (I ordered the Mantis too), but the "stand on the post and cam" method seems like overkill. Glad you said this @g2outdoors.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

It really depends on your body weight. Maybe if your under 200 lbs. I'm comfortably over. I've been hunting with platforms like the predator for several seasons now. I always stand on the post and cam lock. It welds it to the tree and take any clicks, pops, and creaks out of the equation. I can push straight away from the platform from the opposite side of the tree and it doesn't even budge.

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[kyler1945]

It really depends on your body weight. Maybe if your under 200 lbs. I'm comfortably over. I've been hunting with platforms like the predator for several seasons now. I always stand on the post and cam lock. It welds it to the tree and take any clicks, pops, and creaks out of the equation. I can push straight away from the platform from the opposite side of the tree and it doesn't even budge.

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Yeh definitely like doing it this way as well. Takes any movement out.

Raining here the rough surface of the platform definitely helps with wet boots. But it’s gonna kill my packs on the inside. Think I’m gonna make a simple fleece sleeeve it fits loose in to shove it in pack

 

[Wirrex]

It really depends on your body weight. Maybe if your under 200 lbs. I'm comfortably over. I've been hunting with platforms like the predator for several seasons now. I always stand on the post and cam lock. It welds it to the tree and take any clicks, pops, and creaks out of the equation. I can push straight away from the platform from the opposite side of the tree and it doesn't even budge.

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It has to be a weight thing. I have never found the need to toe hook my klemz. Infact, I usually have to loosen my strap when I cam it over by hand. I am 165lbs.

 

[TonyGreenway]

Yeh definitely like doing it this way as well. Takes any movement out.

Raining here the rough surface of the platform definitely helps with wet boots. But it’s gonna kill my packs on the inside. Think I’m gonna make a simple fleece sleeeve it fits loose in to shove it in pack

This is a fantastic idea! What kind of fleece do you use and where do you buy it?

 

[griff]

Wow!! Scary stuff. My concern with cast aluminum has always been is the possibility of sudden failure. When a platform made of steel or aluminum tubing has been over stressed, you will usually see deformation in it which indicates that the material is yielding and if you continue to use it, it will likely fail. Cast aluminum will not deform if over stressed it just fails with no indication. Each of the cast fingers making up the platform can then become little knives with serrated ends that can open you up like a scalpel. Even though you are wearing a linemen's belt or tether, the one or two foot drop can be season ending if the jagged ends of the cast platform open up your legs. I'm not sure I will be able to get past that image and trust the flexing platform.
If I weighed 150# I probably wouldn't worry a bit. Weighing 250 and with heavy winter clothing, boots and gear even more and knowing that the test platform failed at less than 600# with a controlled load applied to it, I wonder what might happen if I put all of my weight on one corner of it...
There are hundreds of posts on this site about the Ropeman 1 having a rating of "only 15Kn" which equates to 1-1/2 tons. I would feel much better about using the Predator if it had a 5x safety factor instead of <2x it's rated capacity even if it weighed twice what it does now.

This is my concern as I am 260 in shorts, tee shirt and tennis shoes. This is going to my first year saddle hunting and I have been on the fence about a platform. Our season doesn't start until 10/15 so I have had time to decide. At this point I am leaning more towards using stepps as I can move on the top of my top stick pretty well. I am still interested in the predator, but may give it a little time to see how it performs once everyone starts using them regularly.

 

[IkemanTX]

It has to be a weight thing. I have never found the need to toe hook my klemz. Infact, I usually have to loosen my strap when I cam it over by hand. I am 165lbs.

DaveT uses one on his Klemz as a way to catch the mud from his boots so it doesn’t rain down on a deer while he is trying to take a shot. Could be good for multiple things.


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[ecfire1967]

I cam locked it just pushing it down with my hand. Very solid. Make sure the strap is just below the versa button.


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[g2outdoors]

Do Not toe hook the Predator. It's unnecessary. It's NOT DESIGNED to toe hook. Just cam it with your hands. It will be plenty solid.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[Casey Smith]

I've always used a ratchet strap on my assassin. I put my hand on the clicker when tightening down and have never made a noise. I used the original assassin strap but broke off the all the metal and found a racket strap that uses a screw to put it on through a loop. it has worked great for all these years! but like @g2outdoors said the trade off is my assassin is super heavy for it just being a platform. For you guys saying the predator creeks you may want to try this method. I get the strap super tight and it locks it super tight, my lone wolf has never made a creek or noise while hunting out of it.

 

[EricS]

Another thing to consider. The Predator is designed to be used with the Mantis saddle supporting most of your weight. Please don't bounce on this thing like a trampoline! The Predator is a positioning aid, not a tree stand.

Don’t panic. I’m sure it was a void or piece of slag in the casting. That said if you’re going to post videos and show standing and pivoting to shoot the weak side it has to be designed to hold your full weight.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

Don’t panic. I’m sure it was a void or piece of slag in the casting. That said if you’re going to post videos and show standing and pivoting to shoot the weak side it has to be designed to hold your full weight.

It's designed to hold your own weight. Plus some.

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[EricS]

It's designed to hold your own weight. Plus some.

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I know it is. But the first time one breaks it becomes a positioning aid. Designed to be used with the mantis supporting most of your weight.

 

[flinginairos]

Do Not toe hook the Predator. It's unnecessary. It's NOT DESIGNED to toe hook. Just cam it with your hands. It will be plenty solid.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

Yes. Listen to G2 and not what I said about toe hooking earlier. I was doing that with the prototype model but the teeth setup was different on that version. The new one with the closer spaced teeth does not need it.


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[ricky racer]

It's designed to hold your own weight. Plus some.

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The Predator will see a users full weight on every hunt. When entering the platform, when exiting the platform and when pivoting on the platform. The platform needs to be built heavy enough to safety support a hunters weght within its rated limits. To do this it needs to be over built to allow a safety factor allowing for a worst case scenario. I don't know how many Predators were tested nor how many different scenarios were tested but we do know the Predator failed between 500 & 600 pounds.
If that's good enough, we should be fine using rope from the hardware store with a burst rating of 500 or 600 lbs. for out linemen's belt or tether. Somehow I don't see anyone on this forum saying that should be safe enough.
If there was a slag inclusion or a void it would be obvious and I'm sure fathead88 would have indicated the defect.
The fact that the cast platform was never deburred is another issue. The sharp edges and corners are all stress risers. Getting a crack in any of those sharp edges is like pulling a loose thread on a sweater. All of the edges and corners need to be radiused and that should be done by the manufacturer, not the end user. I would urge anyone using the Predator to do that before putting it in use.

 

[kyler1945]

The Predator will see a users full weight on every hunt. When entering the platform, when exiting the platform and when pivoting on the platform. The platform needs to be built heavy enough to safety support a hunters weght within its rated limits. To do this it needs to be over built to allow a safety factor allowing for a worst case scenario. I don't know how many Predators were tested nor how many different scenarios were tested but we do know the Predator failed between 500 & 600 pounds.
If that's good enough, we should be fine using rope from the hardware store with a burst rating of 500 or 600 lbs. for out linemen's belt or tether. Somehow I don't see anyone on this forum saying that should be safe enough.
If there was a slag inclusion or a void it would be obvious and I'm sure fathead88 would have indicated the defect.
The fact that the cast platform was never deburred is another issue. The sharp edges and corners are all stress risers. Getting a crack in any of those sharp edges is like pulling a loose thread on a sweater. All of the edges and corners need to be radiused and that should be done by the manufacturer, not the end user. I would urge anyone using the Predator to do that before putting it in use.

The one difference between the rope we use and the stands or platforms is that the rope is for fall protection. It needs to be rated for the force we generate in a fall, not static load.

Having said that, I know at one time the ASTM standard for tree stands as part of TMA required a 2.0 safety factor for static loads.

I design a couple of industrial products for our company and during FEA, we shoot for 3.0, good for a million cycles. This is a scenario where weight isn't a concern, extreme reliability is.

There are large gaps between these factors. I would be very curious to know as well, how the platform was tested, and what the expected results were versus actual results. I doubt anything is proprietary here - and as we've already seen in this market, if someone wants to make a saddle or a platform they can just do it.

I am perfectly comfortable with the statement that this is a positioning aid, and that it should be used with care and in a specific manner. But if we are going to try and ease everyone's mind and tell them to relax, I'd like some data to support that effort.

 

[ricky racer]

Agreed. I've worked in Engineering firms for over 30 years, including time in an engineering test lab doing destructive testing. I really think Tethrd really came close to hitting a home run with the Predator. I just think the emphasis was put on light weight over safety. Another pound of aluminum in the platform casting in the correct areas might have eliminated this whole conversation and the broken platform from happening on the first day of use.

 

[R@gZ]

I did a little playing in the yard with mine and when on the tree it was rock solid I’m 255 and if you put all the weight on the end it had just a little flex that was without being in the saddle. When I was in my saddle I had zero movement or flex! I think they did a great job and I’m excited to hunt with it.

Exactly as I would imagine what would happen while standing on it and not in the saddle... although, seems it will be very stable to hunt from while Tethrd!

 

[ecfire1967]

Tough crowd....


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[ricky racer]

I don't want to be negative or trash Tethrd, on the contrary, I want them to succeed. But we all know why saddle hunting manufacturers don't last very long, they get litigated out of business. Someone gets hurt using their products and it's all over. I feel that if I don't speak up if I see a problem and turn a blind eye, I'm doing Tethrd and the members here a disservice. I feel Tethrd really wants to offer a great product but there are going to be some bumps in the road. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt before this potentially great product gets sorted out.