Quick VS Delta Link and knots questions/options

[Bango Skank]

Notch Quickie

Sherrilltree is the leading retailer of tree care and climbing gear, promoting safe working habits, and proper care of trees, for over 50 years.

sherrilltree.com

 

[valerio024]

Notch Quickie

Sherrilltree is the leading retailer of tree care and climbing gear, promoting safe working habits, and proper care of trees, for over 50 years.

sherrilltree.com

I wonder if the pin’s release could ever accidentally be opened under pressure from the tree. I’ve been eyeing up the notch rapid rig. I wonder if the bar could be used with a delta link or a poacher’s knot for easier removal to go around limbs.

Notch Rapid Rig

Shop the Notch Rapid Rig for use in arboriculture, winches, vehicle recovery, logging, and farming.

notchequipment.com

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[five]

I wonder if the pin’s release could ever accidentally be opened under pressure from the tree.

Good info on this thread about that product and that concern is mentioned:

Link on loop for girth hitch (notch quickie)

I know many folks like a link on their tether/SRT/rappel rope as it’s easily hooked and prevents cross-loading a carabiner. I am curious if anyone has tried these? https://www.treestuff.com/notch-v3-quickie/ Costly but seems to be made for the job.

saddlehunter.com

 

[Coathanger15]

I like the out of the box thinking @valerio024 but I know I would end up losing the pin from the Notch V3 Quickie in the most inopportune moment. The rapid rig is pretty cool as well, but the jingle jangle clanking everytime I went around a branch would not work for me.

 

[Bango Skank]

The Quickie pin has 2 separate cotters, just like the RopeRunner pins. It’d be very difficult to unintentionally open one of them. Also a bit of a loss proof function, those internal cotters need to be pressed to get the pin out of both sides of the shackle, and it’s simple to capture most 1/2” or smaller ropes without taking the pin all the way off.

 

[Coathanger15]

@Bango Skank Thanks, I didnt realize that about the pins. Have you tried one? I'm wondering about the fit and if the pin rattles around in the holes at all. As much as I would like a faster device than the delta link I know I can keep the screw gate quiet if I go slow. Stealth trumps speed for me now.

 

[Spence71]

Know this ain’t gonna untie or pull thru. And if it does. It was my time and No knot was gonna save me. Hahaha

I doublbled wrapped the bight around the biner. Tied a regular scaffold and the loosened up the main limb. Pulled it back thru to make a figure 8. Out the link back in and pulled. Same knot. Just more bit in the link

Doubled bight

Regular way

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[Spence71]

I tie a double overhand with a long bight and use a bull hitch to fix the delta link in the loop... Makes a nice loop to attach the pull down rope to

View attachment 45869

Oh. I’m doing that. Is there a button for 2 thumbs up? No? Dang it.


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[Bango Skank]

@Bango Skank Thanks, I didnt realize that about the pins. Have you tried one? I'm wondering about the fit and if the pin rattles around in the holes at all. As much as I would like a faster device than the delta link I know I can keep the screw gate quiet if I go slow. Stealth trumps speed for me now.

Yes I have two of them, they kinda function like a midline attachable ring. Good SRT canopy anchor in conjunction with an alpine butterfly knot. Very little rattle or noise, the pins fit snug.
Worth noting that there is some strength loss when loaded across the minor axis, but it is rated for that as well, it’s just lower. I’m probably off a few Kn but off the top of my head it’s 30kn on major axis and 14kn on minor, or loaded as if each end of the shackle is being pulled sideways.

Every now and then TreeStuff/ Sherrill does a flash sale or holiday sale and the Notch Quickie can be bought for around 20$. Can probably still find the original machined Quickie from Singing Tree, but pretty expensive. Around 60$ I think.

 

[tmattson]

Is the primary reason some shy away from the figure-8 due to more bulk or because it will not snug super tight like a poachers or similar cinching knot?

 

[Schwonkhead]

Is the primary reason some shy away from the figure-8 due to more bulk or because it will not snug super tight like a poachers or similar cinching knot?

To my understanding it is because of the cinching. Someone with more experience may be able to shed more light in this but from everything I have seen you don’t want any play in the connection from the rope to the quick/delta link, the tighter the better.

 

[goody94]

I tie a double overhand with a long bight and use a bull hitch to fix the delta link in the loop... Makes a nice loop to attach the pull down rope to

View attachment 45869

Thanks for sharing this @Weldabeast . I saw this and had a brain blast...

Not the exact same but I tied a simple stopper knot after my scaffold hitch and eliminated my need for a biner for the pull down cord by simply girth hitching to the stopper knot and pulling. Don’t see how it would come off and I love not needing biners.

 

[Weldabeast]

Thanks for sharing this @Weldabeast . I saw this and had a brain blast...

I have that effect on certain people.....

I still have a biner on my pull down rope but like u I question why I have it....I used 1/2 mule tape for pull down rope this last season and I liked it better than paracord... Paracord had to much stretch IMO.

 

[JBDaddy]

Is the primary reason some shy away from the figure-8 due to more bulk or because it will not snug super tight like a poachers or similar cinching knot?

My reasoning for a scaffold/poachers knot instead of a figure 8 was the amount of rope required to tie it. If I carry a 20' rope, why use 3' (I exaggerate a little) to tie a big bulky knot when 1 1/2 will do?

It does also end up being less bulk, and that's nice just from a storage perspective.

In fact I carry a 35' rope I've never gotten full use of in rappelling, but y'know. Principles.

 

[luckylakes]

Kevin 2 & Raisins, '
There are 2ea serious points.
As previously stated if the steel of the delta link is too small of dia it pulls into the scaffold knot and releases upon impact but this is not the only issue.
In the slap snap video what struck me was the dia of the steel round stock of the oval link. I don't know the math formula but lets say the 9mm sterling c-iv rope with a Kong SS 40KN delta link I just got from EWO is not much more than 1/4" dia round stock. Now You take your rope and do a 180 degree turn through the link to tie any knot. If the round stock your rope goes around is not of the right dia then rope strength of 4663lbs just dropped say 20%!!! So what dia round stock do you need to maintain your 4663 lbs?
I think this is why there are thimbles to maintain a certain curve on boat anchor lines and lifting straps etc..

 

[Kevin2]

More good info to think about.

Kevin 2 & Raisins, '
There are 2ea serious points.
As previously stated if the steel of the delta link is too small of dia it pulls into the scaffold knot and releases upon impact but this is not the only issue.
In the slap snap video what struck me was the dia of the steel round stock of the oval link. I don't know the math formula but lets say the 9mm sterling c-iv rope with a Kong SS 40KN delta link I just got from EWO is not much more than 1/4" dia round stock. Now You take your rope and do a 180 degree turn through the link to tie any knot. If the round stock your rope goes around is not of the right dia then rope strength of 4663lbs just dropped say 20%!!! So what dia round stock do you need to maintain your 4663 lbs?
I think this is why there are thimbles to maintain a certain curve on boat anchor lines and lifting straps etc..

 

[Mitchellfarmer1982]

This carabiner looks like it could replace a delta link.

GridLock Screwgate Carabiner | Black Diamond Climbing Gear

Discover the Black Diamond Gridlock Screwgate Carabiner. A revolutionary climbing carabiner with hot-forged construction and screwgate sleeve to eliminate cross-loading when belaying.

www.blackdiamondequipment.com

Is there a reason not to use these? Isnt the whole purpose of the design to stop cross loading?

 

[Zacrowsl]

Technically a good hardened steel carabiner is stronger than a quick link or delta link. I been doing a ton of research on this. Plus to get the full strength of a quick link or delta it must be completely 100% screwed shut. You aren't doing that without a wrench. Neither are meant to be used in our application. But a fall hard enough to kill you (in a saddle) on any of the listed devices won't break any of them either. My opinion.

Petzl oxan
Major axis strength : 38 kN
Minor axis strength : 16 kN
Open gate strength : 15 kN

Petzl Delta specs
Major axis strength : 25 kN
Minor axis strength : 10 kN

Petzl Quick link specs
Major axis strength : 25 kN
Minor axis strength : 10 kN

Also a video for thought:

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

Thanks for sharing this @Weldabeast . I saw this and had a brain blast...

Not the exact same but I tied a simple stopper knot after my scaffold hitch and eliminated my need for a biner for the pull down cord by simply girth hitching to the stopper knot and pulling. Don’t see how it would come off and I love not needing biners.

This is awesome. Been using a soft shackle to eliminate the biner but this would be much simpler one less piece to take along.

 

[Zacrowsl]

Kevin 2 & Raisins, '
There are 2ea serious points.
As previously stated if the steel of the delta link is too small of dia it pulls into the scaffold knot and releases upon impact but this is not the only issue.
In the slap snap video what struck me was the dia of the steel round stock of the oval link. I don't know the math formula but lets say the 9mm sterling c-iv rope with a Kong SS 40KN delta link I just got from EWO is not much more than 1/4" dia round stock. Now You take your rope and do a 180 degree turn through the link to tie any knot. If the round stock your rope goes around is not of the right dia then rope strength of 4663lbs just dropped say 20%!!! So what dia round stock do you need to maintain your 4663 lbs?
I think this is why there are thimbles to maintain a certain curve on boat anchor lines and lifting straps etc..

Your knot reduces the strength of the rope much more than that bend around the delta link. Your weak point will be the knot