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Rules For Thee Not For Me (Outlaw Thread)

It's nothing personal I enjoy these threads. Triggering indignant internet people I think is a season of its own at this point.
Oh it is, I read nearly every post on these threads. I don't care what you do but I think it's amusing reading why internet strangers think it's so important to explain there beliefs to each other. I carry a pruner, and I'll shut off your illegally placed game cameras. You know why? Because I want to. Lmao
 
The guy that allegedly never breaks a single hunting reg see a guy who left his hunter orange at home off in the distance and says to himself, “outlaws like this are what is ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never hunt without my hunter orange.” The the guy who left his hunter orange gets to his hunting spot where he find tacks on 30 trees and says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never leave tacks on the trees.” The guy who left the tacks on the trees was scouting in another location and came across a trail camera where they weren’t permitted and says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never use trail cameras where not permitted.” The guy who set up the camera was climbing a tree to hunt and sees the tree had already been climbed. When he got to hunting height he discovered that there was a screw in bow hook in the tree and says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never screw in objects into a tree.” The guy that left the screw in bow hanger was hunting on the edge of private land when he sees a bow shot deer run out and expire in the private. He sees a guy crossing into the corn field way off in the distance to retrieve his game and says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never trespass, even to get a deer.” The guy that tresspassed to retrieve his game was dragging his deer out when he came across a pile of corn and says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never illegally bait deer.” The guy who left the corn pile got a text from his buddy who shot two bucks and wanted him to drive over and tag one for him. The baiter says to himself, “outlaws like this are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never illegally tag a deer I didn’t kill.” The guy that killed the two bucks texted his other two buddies, one was scouting, the other hunting a field edge, and one had killed already that morning. When they got there the guy that shot the two bucks told them the one buck was off in the privot there and asked if they would go get it. The one buddy pulled out a pocket boy and went to work cutting a lane through the privot to the second deer. The guy without hunter orange on says to the guy cutting lanes, “outlaws like you are ruining hunting for the rest of us. I would never cut limbs!” The other buddy is walking up and tells them you’ll never believe what he got on his cellular camera the other day, some a-hole was carrying corn to bait! The guy who was disgusted by the sight of cutting limbs went to tag the second deer for his buddy as the other buddy kept on with his story. While he was reaching into his bag to get a pen some corn fell out. Turns out the guy without orange, the guy who set tacks, the guy who set a camera, the guy who left a bow hanger, the guy who tresspassed, the guy who baited, the guy who tagged two deer, and the guy that was cutting limbs were all buddies and were all outlaws in each others own right. Disgusted by each others law breaking and subjective justifications they all decided that the others were outlaws and they were ruining hunting for the rest them. They went home and wrote about the illegal actions of the other buddies on their respective favorite hunting forums where they were vindicated and praised for standing up against the abuse of the hunting regs they encountered. They each forgot to share their own rule breakings and thus continued to outlaw where they deemed ok or necessary.
This is based on a true story
 
In the name of rerailing the thread.

75% of duck hunters here could be ticketed any given day for some combination of no kill switch, improper nav lights, and inaccessible/inadequate/expired/no PFDs on board.

The 3 shell limit is VERY loosely followed on a lot of dove fields I've seen.

Legal shooting light is very much a suggestion and not a hard-n-fast rule.

Gamecheck compliance remains abysmal.

Plenty of people keep more than one catfish a day over 32".

A lot of small game hunters walk or cross vehicle-navigable roads with rounds in the magazine. And I'd say most hunters travel WMA roads with rounds in the magazine.

I've never seen a vehicle hunting COE land that had the properly filled out permit visible on the dash.

I've seen a lot of hunter orange hats that were faded or not solid orange.
 
Taking deadheads is another one that a LOT of people ignore the rules on-many states require calling it in to dnr and getting a #, most people don't seem to care about this/are ignorant of the rules. It does seem silly on the surface to me, but I suppose it's an anti-poaching measure.

Lots of rulebreaking going on re: shed hunting out west it appears as well.
 
Taking deadheads is another one that a LOT of people ignore the rules on-many states require calling it in to dnr and getting a #, most people don't seem to care about this/are ignorant of the rules. It does seem silly on the surface to me, but I suppose it's an anti-poaching measure.

Lots of rulebreaking going on re: shed hunting out west it appears as well.
Down here a lot of roadkill gets tossed into truckbeds. I've gamechecked them when it was in season but I have no clue what the rules are regarding it. I'm probably violating somebody's rights....
 
"The law is an ass" -- Wrongfully attributed to Charles ****ens.

Per this source: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-law-is-an-ass.html, This proverbial expression is of English origin and the ass being referred to here is the English colloquial name for a donkey, not the American 'ass'. Donkeys have a somewhat unjustified reputation for obstinance and stupidity that has given us the adjective 'asinine'. It is the stupidly rigid application of the law that this phrase calls into question. (emphasis mine)

I believe everyone breaks some laws. Speeding on the roads is a good example. If you're doing 10 kpm over on a 100 kpm posted highway (6 mph for you Yanquees south of the border, lol) most people would say it's not a big deal and often do it. But if you are doing 100 in a 20 school zone.....most people would draw the line and want the book thrown at the perpetrator. All a matter of degree and shades of grey. Sadly, the law is written and often interpreted as black and white rather than shades of grey. And if you break the law, get caught, and end up being judged by someone who only sees black or white, then it's gonna hurt.

It's a classic risk/reward/punishment tradeoff decision, which is a personal one. If you take the risk and get the deer you shot without getting permission from the property owner, and don't get caught.....reward....you got your animal. If you do get caught....you may get punished.

In my mind it's important to know the applicable laws and be able to make your own risk/reward/punishment decisions and be willing to accept the consequences if you get your ass kicked by the law. And maybe even more important, to be true to your own ethics and morals.

The law desperately tries to dictate ethics and morals, but that is not a very effective way of instilling those into people. It just gives you a big stick to smack someone that doesn't abide by commonly accepted ethics/morals.

Interesting thread.....GRC's long post was especially entertaining.
 
But.....do you ever speed when driving? If you drive I already have the answer. Why is one law given more importance than another?
[/]
Speeding has nothing to do with what we are currently talking about. And when I do something wrong I own it like a man and don’t try to justify it. I always try to do the right thing even if it takes a little longer and no one is watching.
 
In the name of rerailing the thread.

75% of duck hunters here could be ticketed any given day for some combination of no kill switch, improper nav lights, and inaccessible/inadequate/expired/no PFDs on board.

The 3 shell limit is VERY loosely followed on a lot of dove fields I've seen.

Legal shooting light is very much a suggestion and not a hard-n-fast rule.

Gamecheck compliance remains abysmal.

Plenty of people keep more than one catfish a day over 32".

A lot of small game hunters walk or cross vehicle-navigable roads with rounds in the magazine. And I'd say most hunters travel WMA roads with rounds in the magazine.

I've never seen a vehicle hunting COE land that had the properly filled out permit visible on the dash.

I've seen a lot of hunter orange hats that were faded or not solid orange.
You mentioning ducks reminds me of a guy and his friends who are hardcore duck hunters. They go out and pummel ducks all day. I swear they never miss or wound game. That's because he told me he loads his own for him and his friends. 5/8ths of the shell is steel shot, the other is lead. It passes the game warden magnet test. Thought it was quite ingenious to be honest
 
You mentioning ducks reminds me of a guy and his friends who are hardcore duck hunters. They go out and pummel ducks all day. I swear they never miss or wound game. That's because he told me he loads his own for him and his friends. 5/8ths of the shell is steel shot, the other is lead. It passes the game warden magnet test. Thought it was quite ingenious to be honest
The way the lead shot ban was implemented and the research behind it is a whoooollle nuther post for me to wreck my public reputation on.

I can shoot gallinule in the swamp with lead shot, and I can shoot squirrels in flooded timber with lead shot. But in a 10ft deep creek (where lead would be completely inaccessible to dabblers) I have to shoot steel. Lead ingestion for sure can be lethal, but steel cripple rate studies muddy waters when it come to before/after comparisons on waterfowl lethality. And the shot issue pales in comparison to unchecked wetland loss.

I respect the lead ban in theory and follow it meticulously for several reasons, but I can't get too worked up over the outlaws.
 
Legally speaking, that deer you’re all retrieving isn’t even yours until you touch it. Shooting it doesn’t count. It’s called capture. A landowner Probably could go for conversion and trespass. The conversion might not stick, but you’d have to fight your way out of it.
That varies by state. As I understand it, in Alaska, the deer is yours once you hit it, whether you retrieve it or not. Ted Nugent got jammed up over that a decade or so back - shot a bear he couldn't recover, and his guide mislead him into thinking he could shoot another one. He could not, and paid the fines. In that circumstance, I hope Alaska gives hunters extra abilities to track and retrieve game from private property, compared to other states which don't regulate injured-but-not-retrieved game animals so strictly.
 
I don't think we're gonna see changed minds on this one, so I'll suggest a redirect.

How is everybody obtaining contact info on neighboring properties? What state are you in, how big are the tracts, what's the ownership type?
OnX, Huntstand, etc., don't have their own databases of landowners. They slurp up publicly-available taxpayer and survey info from the relevant County (and in some cases, state) agencies. In MN, pretty much every county has a GIS department, usually (but not always) within the surveyor's office, with publicly-available online maps. So, this would be the "system of record". If your county doesn't have an online map, you can pop down to the county offices - usually at the county courthouse - with the addresses or coordinates of the properties in question, and figure out who is responsible for paying the taxes on that property. Every property record I've ever looked up (in MN) has both mailing address and phone number listed. It's usually the landowner, but sometimes landowners will establish a trust or LLC to hold the land and thereby preserve their privacy, in which case you will have a few extra steps.
 
OnX, Huntstand, etc., don't have their own databases of landowners. They slurp up publicly-available taxpayer and survey info from the relevant County (and in some cases, state) agencies. In MN, pretty much every county has a GIS department, usually (but not always) within the surveyor's office, with publicly-available online maps. So, this would be the "system of record". If your county doesn't have an online map, you can pop down to the county offices - usually at the county courthouse - with the addresses or coordinates of the properties in question, and figure out who is responsible for paying the taxes on that property. Every property record I've ever looked up (in MN) has both mailing address and phone number listed. It's usually the landowner, but sometimes landowners will establish a trust or LLC to hold the land and thereby preserve their privacy, in which case you will have a few extra steps.
My county does not list a phone number on the county website. You can find my address, acreage, square footage, appraisal value, tax/sales record, and even the fact that I apparently have select hardwood floors on there. No number. Just double-checked.

I have tried repeatedly to get the phone number of the guy who owns the neighboring property. I'd pay for a signed and notarized document granting an easement across his property to access the WMA on the other side. County clerk claims to not have it. I wrote him a letter addressed to his mailing address in a different county the first year we moved there. The response was a truck that came out to paint his property line with purple paint. Only time I've seen somebody on the property.

A few years on this forum have taught me that government and cultural norms vary widely across the empire.
 
My county does not list a phone number on the county website. You can find my address, acreage, square footage, appraisal value, tax/sales record, and even the fact that I apparently have select hardwood floors on there. No number. Just double-checked.

I have tried repeatedly to get the phone number of the guy who owns the neighboring property. I'd pay for a signed and notarized document granting an easement across his property to access the WMA on the other side. County clerk claims to not have it. I wrote him a letter addressed to his mailing address in a different county the first year we moved there. The response was a truck that came out to paint his property line with purple paint. Only time I've seen somebody on the property.

A few years on this forum have taught me that government and cultural norms vary widely across the empire.
Well, that's unfortunate. I guess AL does things a little different. I wonder if the county he lives in would include phone numbers in the publicly-available info.

A PI would probably have access to subscription credit reporting tools like Lexis-Nexis or Clear. Maybe it would be worth a free consultation with one to see what information he would be able to scare up (for a fee).
 
Back to the cell camera thing for a minute...There's another thread that states cameras have been outlawed in DE, I think.
I'm in SE PA, & own property in NW PA, with 4 cameras mounted & working.

If PA would ever pass a law to ban cameras on public & private land, you can rest assured that my cameras, located exclusively on my property, would still be mounted and working. That's just the way it is.

The "other side" can choose which laws they follow, & which ones they ignore...same for me, the way I figure it.
 
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That varies by state. As I understand it, in Alaska, the deer is yours once you hit it, whether you retrieve it or not. Ted Nugent got jammed up over that a decade or so back - shot a bear he couldn't recover, and his guide mislead him into thinking he could shoot another one. He could not, and paid the fines. In that circumstance, I hope Alaska gives hunters extra abilities to track and retrieve game from private property, compared to other states which don't regulate injured-but-not-retrieved game animals so strictly.
I think it’s safe to say it definitely varies by state. Here in Iowa I believe they actually describe it as a DUTY to retrieve. You CANNOT leave an animal. You can’t take your weapon with you to retrieve game though, leave it at the property line. For something like a pheasant that falls over the fence I just go get it, deer I’d certainly talk to the landowner first and then have to involve DNR if that didn’t go well. Even in a case of the urban bow hunt around me my instruction was that if a deer made it to a neighboring property lawn I was to go talk to the homeowner and if they declined to call the fella in charge; we’d be going to get the deer one way or another. From the regs:
IMG_4292.jpeg
 
I think it’s safe to say it definitely varies by state. Here in Iowa I believe they actually describe it as a DUTY to retrieve. You CANNOT leave an animal. You can’t take your weapon with you to retrieve game though, leave it at the property line. For something like a pheasant that falls over the fence I just go get it, deer I’d certainly talk to the landowner first and then have to involve DNR if that didn’t go well. Even in a case of the urban bow hunt around me my instruction was that if a deer made it to a neighboring property lawn I was to go talk to the homeowner and if they declined to call the fella in charge; we’d be going to get the deer one way or another. From the regs:
View attachment 85578
In the city hunts I've been drawn for, we're required to get police assistance when entering private property to retrieve a deer. Definitely a reminder to know the laws in the places we hunt, especially if we travel to hunt.
 
Growing up we were allowed two bucks during rifle season. It was pretty standard for Dad’s, grandfathers and uncles to check deer in for a kid after he shot his first one so he could keep hunting.

In MD we can quarter a deer in the field and then pack it out but, only after we have checked the deer in via phone call or app. Its possible a deer or two may have started the journey out in my pack and not got checked in until I got back into cell service.
 
Back to the cell camera thing for a minute...There's another thread that states cameras have been outlawed in DE, I think.
I'm in SE PA, & own property in NW PA, with 4 cameras mounted & working.

If PA would ever pass a law to ban cameras on public & private land, you can rest assured that my cameras, located exclusively on my property, would still be mounted and working. That's just the way it is.

The "other side" can choose which laws they follow, & which ones they ignore...same for me, the way I figure it.
For me it goes back to the what is right vs the letter of the law. You should without question be able to monitor your property, if the law says you cant, that isnt right.
 
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