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Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.

Fl Canopy Stalker said:
That kind of takes us back full circle to the OG aerohunter stuff doesn’t it?
That would require people to stop worrying about ounces. We would need to listen to people with real world climbing and elevated working knowledge, not you tube University drop outs… And most importantly, all of us would have to slow the hype train and me too movements of the saddle hunting world. That is a lot to ask of a niche market of guys during today’s social media platforms. Unfortunately I am convinced it’s gonna get worse long before it gets better.
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You're whole statement, unfortunately, has a ton of truth in it. I too believe we're going to hear about more accidents before we hear about them being far and few between. I pray I'm wrong.

This is my first year saddle hunting and I also opted to one stick instead of multiple sticks and such. But, I went through a massive amount of research and am fortunate enough to know Greg Staggs of Staggs in the Wild well. I talked to him in length many times and he helped get me setup properly, as well as talk to me through various nuances to the method. He is one of the very few on Youtube, or other forms of social media that I trust. He's a smart guy, knows the risks, etc., and he's willing to also put his son in a tree using this method.

I opted to use both my tether and linemans when going up the tree. I did not like the tether slack situation or the lack of being hands free to manipulate the tether, etc. I just feel better knowing i'm tied twice and feel that the linemans, as long as I do it properly, is going to put me into the tree and the tether will stop me, avoiding tether slack shock or hitting the ground.

There are far too many things I see on social media that scare the living hell out of me.

I think the bottom line with all of this is this. Know your gear inside and out. Understand what its capable of and use only climbing rated gear in the applications they were intended for. Back up as much of your system in a reasonable and again, safe way. Know your physical limitations. Don't kid yourself. If you're in doubt of something, seek expert advice. Plan for things going sideways or wrong and come up with systems to get you out of the tree safely. Think.. its not if it happens, its when it happens. Finally, and I feel perhaps as important as anything... inspect gear constantly. Get in the habit of looking at every life preserving piece of your kit. Knots, loops, carabiners, belay devices, ropes. All of it.

Be safe everyone.
 
We will 100% hear about more accidents. I wouldn't be surprised if they start increasing in frequency, because the industry (and the consumers) are hell bent on making as much money by going in on the light and fast fad as possible.

Honestly, with the way YouTube is so stupid, I'm surprised one of the influencer hunters hasn't tried bringing a bouldering crash mat out into the woods and just jumping down from hunting height as the "ultimate pre-set game changer ultralight descending technique for really cool bros"(TM) . Hope this post doesn't give any idiots any ideas of what to monetize next, because unfortunately I think it would make money and get copied.
 
muzzyman88 said:
You're whole statement, unfortunately, has a ton of truth in it. I too believe we're going to hear about more accidents before we hear about them being far and few between. I pray I'm wrong.

This is my first year saddle hunting and I also opted to one stick instead of multiple sticks and such. But, I went through a massive amount of research and am fortunate enough to know Greg Staggs of Staggs in the Wild well. I talked to him in length many times and he helped get me setup properly, as well as talk to me through various nuances to the method. He is one of the very few on Youtube, or other forms of social media that I trust. He's a smart guy, knows the risks, etc., and he's willing to also put his son in a tree using this method.

I opted to use both my tether and linemans when going up the tree. I did not like the tether slack situation or the lack of being hands free to manipulate the tether, etc. I just feel better knowing i'm tied twice and feel that the linemans, as long as I do it properly, is going to put me into the tree and the tether will stop me, avoiding tether slack shock or hitting the ground.

There are far too many things I see on social media that scare the living hell out of me.

I think the bottom line with all of this is this. Know your gear inside and out. Understand what its capable of and use only climbing rated gear in the applications they were intended for. Back up as much of your system in a reasonable and again, safe way. Know your physical limitations. Don't kid yourself. If you're in doubt of something, seek expert advice. Plan for things going sideways or wrong and come up with systems to get you out of the tree safely. Think.. its not if it happens, its when it happens. Finally, and I feel perhaps as important as anything... inspect gear constantly. Get in the habit of looking at every life preserving piece of your kit. Knots, loops, carabiners, belay devices, ropes. All of it.

Be safe everyone.
Click to expand...
Your opening and closing paragraphs had me. I was truly invested but, you lost me at Staggs in the Wild. In my opinion, his opinions are wildly biased but are always presented as the end all truth. He seems like a nice guy and I’m sure he’s intelligent and kills big deer out in the Midwest, but I’m not a believer. I am glad that he has helped you along on your path for saddle hunting. Be safe and good luck this season
 
I’ve said it before. If it looks wrong, feels wrong it’s probably wrong. Don’t guess. Ask. There is no such thing as a stupid question. My living is made 30-100+ feet in the air. There is no room for speculations. You must know. Any activity performed In an elevated position must be scrutinized to death. One I’ll tied knot in a hurry can be death. Remove the hazards and add a safety for your safety. Rappelling is a pain with a hollow block but is another precaution. I myself use a hollow block.
 
Lowg08 said:
I’ve said it before. If it looks wrong, feels wrong it’s probably wrong. Don’t guess. Ask. There is no such thing as a stupid question. My living is made 30-100+ feet in the air. There is no room for speculations. You must know. Any activity performed In an elevated position must be scrutinized to death. One I’ll tied knot in a hurry can be death. Remove the hazards and add a safety for your safety. Rappelling is a pain with a hollow block but is another precaution. I myself use a hollow block.
Click to expand...
I utilize a long schwabisch hitch above my rappel device. Autoblocks work great too but I like knowing my hitch is above the mechanical incase something goes wrong.
 
I think preaching safety is so important, and all of the platforms pushing saddle hunting should continue to do so or do so more often. But an increase in injuries and deaths is not necessarily increased unsafe practices or somehow signaling a new wave of reckless hunters. There have always been unsettling levels of unsafe practices in the years I have been around. In fact, I think it used to be a lot higher. To name a few I have seen: paracord bridges, HALF of the site back in the day using some kind of sit-drag set up, constant DIY hacks and chopping up other equipment to make the gear we need, janky stitches, ropes melted from friction, out of spec ascenders, home-welded platforms (guilty), no stopper knots, knots tied the completely wrong way, I think we could collectively put together quite a list. The availability of equipment and safety information has never been better to my eyes.

The bottom line for me is, that these accidents will statistically keep happening, likely at an increasing rate, regardless of "industry marketing practice" or any form of regulation. I am skeptical that any change in industry practices could have changed the sad outcome of this situation. There is no evidence of equipment failure and the JRB method isn't driven or suggested by any of the big companies or names.

We need to do our best to make sure those we interact with and teach are going about it the right way and to push for education and caution however we can. I still feel the average guy will be forced to be more safety aware switching to a saddle vs. just climbing up and plopping into a treestand. In fact, I would be willing to wager that if every single hunter switched and started using saddles exclusively, the annual hunter injury and mortality rate would drop significantly from what it is, but still, never reach zero because accidents happen and everyone has a different acceptable level of risk to them.
 
BackSpasm said:
I think preaching safety is so important, and all of the platforms pushing saddle hunting should continue to do so or do so more often. But an increase in injuries and deaths is not necessarily increased unsafe practices or somehow signaling a new wave of reckless hunters. There have always been unsettling levels of unsafe practices in the years I have been around. In fact, I think it used to be a lot higher. To name a few I have seen: paracord bridges, HALF of the site back in the day using some kind of sit-drag set up, constant DIY hacks and chopping up other equipment to make the gear we need, janky stitches, ropes melted from friction, out of spec ascenders, home-welded platforms (guilty), no stopper knots, knots tied the completely wrong way, I think we could collectively put together quite a list. The availability of equipment and safety information has never been better to my eyes.

The bottom line for me is, that these accidents will statistically keep happening, likely at an increasing rate, regardless of "industry marketing practice" or any form of regulation. I am skeptical that any change in industry practices could have changed the sad outcome of this situation. There is no evidence of equipment failure and the JRB method isn't driven or suggested by any of the big companies or names.

We need to do our best to make sure those we interact with and teach are going about it the right way and to push for education and caution however we can. I still feel the average guy will be forced to be more safety aware switching to a saddle vs. just climbing up and plopping into a treestand. In fact, I would be willing to wager that if every single hunter switched and started using saddles exclusively, the annual hunter injury and mortality rate would drop significantly from what it is, but still, never reach zero because accidents happen and everyone has a different acceptable level of risk to them.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of this. However regulations will help dictate that change in saddle companies and gear that you mentioned and it is possible that design changes brought on by standard failures could help keep someone more upright or help keep their equipment from failing, or perhaps it won’t? Time will tell.
 
First and foremost prayers for his family during this time. This is truly heartbreaking.

I’m a big guy have always been a big guy. When younger didn’t give much thought to climbing trees with screw in steps and using lockon stands 30 years ago no harness nothing. Years later lockon stand breaks and I have an accident. By the grace of god it was not worse to this day I have pain in my ankle and foot. I have a nasty scar on my left arm from ladder stick tearing arm open. Started saddle hunting three years ago have felt safe but I do have times when I look at ropes, carabiners and start thinking what if. I have to try and calm myself down.

I have even been trying Ddrt climbing this year. Now I’m probably gonna have some anxiety and thinking what if. And thinking about what I have read the last 7 pages.

Be safe guys.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I utilize a long schwabisch hitch above my rappel device. Autoblocks work great too but I like knowing my hitch is above the mechanical incase something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

link to a pic? DM is fine to keep this on topic. Thanks

Sorry to hear about this tragedy and it is a sobering reminder
 
Aeds151 said:
“Trained climbing experts” would not like most of what saddle hunting has become.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I can agree with this. To many YouTube or picture knots. So many do not understand how knots effect ropes and etc. too much to cover in a thread.
 
Lowg08 said:
I can agree with this. To many YouTube or picture knots. So many do not understand how knots effect ropes and etc. too much to cover in a thread.
Click to expand...
Exactly… and how right height and slack can effect safety. Rope size… static vs dynamic (effects of force absorption) Or fall factors. Even saddle design and how it can help initiate becoming inverted during a fall. So so so many factors
 
It sounds like he was practicing by himself in the woods! It's probably a good idea to have someone check on you every 30 mins if you're doing something new all alone in the woods. That way if you don't answer they can call for or get help!
 
neonomad said:
Off topic, serious question, but what does “the original belt doesn’t work” mean… I hunted the Recon half a dozen times before I had heard of the bungee mod. Now what I do is loosen the belt just a tad and let the bungee guarantee everything stays snug.
Click to expand...
My recon belt never worked right. When I put weight on it the buckle won’t hold. It’s has to do with the fact that I ordered up a size to have more play between the panels but that means the belt had to be tightened all the way, to the point where the plates were almost touching. Then when it’s weighted it’s too much for the buckle to handle and it disengages.
 
Tr33_n1nj@ said:
My recon belt never worked right. When I put weight on it the buckle won’t hold. It’s has to do with the fact that I ordered up a size to have more play between the panels but that means the belt had to be tightened all the way, to the point where the plates were almost touching. Then when it’s weighted it’s too much for the buckle to handle and it disengages.
Click to expand...
Ah yes. The original anderson style bek
lt slipped. The speed buckle was the replacement.
 
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