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Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.
- Thread starter Wirrex
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2021
- Messages
- 2,207
Something I learned from this tragedy is the importance of practicing and trying new gear and techniques in a controlled environment with support close by. While this is something I’ve always done, this is a reminder of just how important it is work out all the kinks with someone else close by.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 6,284
when i was in physical therapy for a bulged disc, i asked about inversion tables and the therapist said (to paraphrase)
"although they do help some people, i cannot recommend them and would prefer you try traction (which pulls on your legs while seated) because for certain people an inversion table can kill them, such as blood pressure increasing to the brain and causing an aneurysm in a weakened blood vessel"
i'm middle aged, in good shape, and had hung upside recently (including in my brother's inversion table)....so i went ahead and got one....but i don't hang past 45 degrees in it
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
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- 6,284
I just can't work out how hanging upside down was so rapidly lethal for him. 20 minutes is a very short amount of time. There are many examples of people being upside down for hours on end.
Including:
a 70 year old hunter who was upside down for two days in a treestand harness:
Hunter Hung Upside-Down From Treestand for Two Days | Grand View Outdoors
An Oregon hunter fell from his treestand and hung upside-down before two hunters heard his cries for help. The most dangerous part was the rescue.www.grandviewoutdoors.com
A roller coaster full of folks in Belgium all being upside down for 90 minutes straight with no issues:
Riders of Belgian roller coaster stuck upside down for 1 1/2 ...https://apnews.com › article
Many stories of cavers inverted for over a day
David Blaine hung upside down from his ankles in front of hundreds of people for 60 hours with short breaks for medical checks
Magician David Blaine hangs upside-down for 60 hours
AP PhotoMagician David Blaine hangs upside down above Central Park's Wollman Rink in New York during his latest endurance challenge. NEW YORK (AP) -- Magician-daredevil David Blaine has safely finished his latest stunt: hanging upside-down without a net high over...www.mlive.com
It really makes me wonder if there was an underlying medical condition at play that made his inversion much worse for him.
i don't think we have enough info to know he was only upside down 20 minutes....he fell and was upside down, he was found by a hunter, the hunter called paramedics, paramedics had to get him down.....where in all that does the 20 minutes fit?
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
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- 6,284
youtube does its own censoring, plus i believe youtubers can now block people or remove your comment or at least report it to youtube as harassing (and we know that if someone now claims victimhood status....well that is a magic 'they are correct' card)
i've seen all sorts of ridiculous stuff on youtube with zero comments shooting it down and if you suggest they are wrong, then the youtuber feels publicly humiliated and then goes off on you
Yeah. I must admit I watch a ton of YouTube so I shouldn't comain so much about it, but I use it as an entertainment source, not an educational one mostly.
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- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 6,284
yeah, you gotta be really skeptical about everything
BayouBeauxhunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2018
- Messages
- 224
Lol. The knaider swaider is as sketchy a climbing method as anything else out there and the popularity of it came from this site. There may be some chatter on here about the negative side of it, but people still advocate for its use today on here. Again I have no problem with this site or its format, but if people on this site are going to place blame on you tube influencers for saddle hunting accidents, then they also need to consider how information on this site influences safety. Yes this site typically has pros and at least some cons on a given technique, but most people use code names. Who are the experts on this site? Which climbing methods demonstrated on here are arborist/mountaineering expert approved? Maybe the role of this site isn’t to be the safety police and let people do their own research, but is it the responsibility of you tube influencers? Why should they get the blame but not this site? Again for the record I don’t think this site should get the blame but I also think it’s unfair for people to blame you tube influencers.
muzzyman88
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2021
- Messages
- 44
I hate to be talking about this so soon out of respect for the guy and his wife and family. However, the comment his wife made about repelling and getting upside down... that really has me baffled. I've only repelled maybe 50 times this summer, practicing, etc. I can't for the life of me figure out how you could possibly end up upside down. Only thing I could think of is that this particular saddle, the Dryad, isn't a good one sticking/repelling saddle? Is there something inherent to its design that makes it bad for this application?
I've played with just lowering myself down to the ground like a "sissy" vs doing it the correct way, walking down the tree while feeding line out. Its all the same, no way in the world you'd get upside down unless you stopped walking and somehow purposely went upside down.
Did he somehow come out of the saddle? I don't know, I hate to speculate on things like this, its upsetting to think about it and again, my thoughts and prayers go to his loved ones he left behind.
I've played with just lowering myself down to the ground like a "sissy" vs doing it the correct way, walking down the tree while feeding line out. Its all the same, no way in the world you'd get upside down unless you stopped walking and somehow purposely went upside down.
Did he somehow come out of the saddle? I don't know, I hate to speculate on things like this, its upsetting to think about it and again, my thoughts and prayers go to his loved ones he left behind.
My only experience with rappelling is a climbing tower at summer camp. One kid did go inverted about 25 feet up because he kind of kept his feet planted after he started letting line out. So maybe his feet got tangled somehow and he let too much line out.
wyetterp
Well-Known Member
Hey enkriss, is there any chance you can find that post he made explaining in more detail? It would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully we can learn something & adjust accordingly.
My thoughts & prayers go out to the family & also the man that tried to help. Even though he shouldn't be, I'm sure he's haunted by it also. Hats off to him for trying & getting help. Which also makes me wonder why he couldn't get unhooked. untangled, or righted upright. So tragic & my condolences go out to everyone evolved.
I hope the seconds can turn to minutes, minutes can turn to hours & hours can turn to days eventually for them.
As a side note...
When I started to want to saddle hunt I would always come here to read & study in the shadows. Just trying to absorb everything & make sense of it. It truly can be like drinking from a firehouse. Seeing some videos helped. Of course just signing up & posting & reading here has been the most beneficial. This place is full of a lot of really knowledgeable members that are always helpful. After watching who knows how many videos to visualize, the man thing I noticed different in here on SH vs youtube, was the fact there's always someone here preaching safety & backups. I will say the majority of the saddle video's, it's rare to see them use a proper back up device. Most of the YT hunters are strapping on a safeguard to 8mm oplux & calling it good. I learned here that's far from true & actually dangerous. I never hear that on YT. Only in SH.
Now I'm to a point I'm making sure I have the proper, easy to use, backups that can protect me in all the what is situations. Heck there's a few members here that the pics make my head swim because they have back up for their backups that are backed up. Makes sense though.
My goal was to find a few systems that worked safely & easily. I'm no genus (pun intended) & realized I need stuff I can do easily & even when I'm tired & exhausted. Sucks getting all tangled up as a newbie or even experienced when your wore out. Last thing I want is thinking I have something tied right & then something happens to realize it wasn't exactly right. I think there are some systems that are overly complicated when they don't need to be.
Sure I can curse like a sailor but that doesn't mean I always tie knots like one or a arborist all the time. I've accepted that. I also got dismissed from class when I couldn't even learn mary had a little lamb on the recorder in elementary school. Just not my thing.
For me I always have a lineman rope & extra tether, 40ft of good rope, a safeguard, a autoblock, a vt prusik, extra carabiners, & a minimalist srt kit at all times. This pretty much covers my bases in my situations & I stay backed up at all times. I can attach the autoblock & VT with my eyes closed. Very simply & basic. If I can do it it means it's pretty easy.
Idk...I just feel like some methods are just making things way more complicated & actually opening the door to potentially bigger problems. Just overly complicated for most hunters. I'm in the KISS camp & also think all the youtubers should be doing a better job using & showing back up's in the system.
Anyway I also feel like SH is also a good place to learn safety. The members around here are really good about pointing out flaws & risk & also provide solutions. I learned it's also important & beneficial to be a member & active on here vs just seeing one post on a technique & thinking it's good to go. At least on here the stuff is constantly being tested & evaluated.
Sorry to be so long winded! I just feel like this could be a perfect example of how things can be overly complicated when there are several easier, more basic ways for those who don't have the arborist, sailor knot tying skills.
David Blaine also held his breath for like 25 minutes. The dude makes millions on stunts like that and trains for literally years.
Some persons may be just fine hanging upside down but for others it's a death sentence. The human body isn't constructed to be inverted. It increases pressure in areas of the head and neck that haven't been subjected to it. This in turn may cause weakened areas in the circulatory system to fail. For the heavier persons it can also cause increased pressure on the lungs and heart resulting in oxygen starvation. The older you are the more risk there is, but it's risky for anyone. Just avoid inversion, please.
Lucky13
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2022
- Messages
- 194
It's easy for things to go south off the ground and also easy to be overwhelmed with all the info on how to get off the ground.
I read very few threads on here regarding all the ways to go up and down and definitely don't waste my time watching youtube vids on it.
I'm 51 and fortunate to have 4 decades of hunting behind me and know what works for me.. 3 or 4 quality made sticks.
But to be a new hunter getting into the game, they don't have that luxury you get after hanging out in hundreds of different trees. Figuring out what works for you safely, efficiently, quietly, securely, and puts meat in the freezer is the level we all try and achieve. Everyone's journey is different. Enjoy the process and keep the Purcell family in your prayers.
I read very few threads on here regarding all the ways to go up and down and definitely don't waste my time watching youtube vids on it.
I'm 51 and fortunate to have 4 decades of hunting behind me and know what works for me.. 3 or 4 quality made sticks.
But to be a new hunter getting into the game, they don't have that luxury you get after hanging out in hundreds of different trees. Figuring out what works for you safely, efficiently, quietly, securely, and puts meat in the freezer is the level we all try and achieve. Everyone's journey is different. Enjoy the process and keep the Purcell family in your prayers.
Swingin' Free
Well-Known Member
Put the knaider swaider in for a vote.
I bet most that tried it, do use it...
Now if you want to talk about "Saddlehunter" sketch, look no further then the Croc crew...
BayouBeauxhunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2018
- Messages
- 224
Ah I see. Safety is like climate science. Put it up for a vote and if people like it, then it must be safe. I feel better already.
Safety is in the eye of the beer holder
Vtbow
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 5,516
Not an equal comparison. A channel is a place for one person to express and communicate their own view; personal and potentially commercial. Comments are just that on a channel. This is a forum, a collaborative medium.
This site was born in a time when commercial solutions and saddle hunting products were slim/non existent. Companies producing products for masses need to be held to high standards. Those same companies should be sending their products for solicited reviews to actual professionals with certifications, not jist youtube "influencers" because they know they'll get more marketing publicity.
@redsquirrel and his moderators do a spectacular job keeping this place inline, and if a post poses overly sketchy ideas(like a paracord bridge) they are quick to point it out, and so are other users.
Swingin' Free
Well-Known Member
You act like the N/S is the gold standard of saddle hunters...
And who's pushing it currently??
I'd bet they're on YouTube, and probably use click bait material to pay their bills..
Not even remotely on the level of 500 + eyes on your ideas like at this forum..
Really hated to hear about this death, very sorry for his family to have to endure this. What happened to him could get about any of us. I stick to a very basic and simple setup. Three sticks, platform, and a trophyline saddle that is taller on your back with the waistbelt and leg straps intact. I will never get into some of the dangerous climbing methods and saddle setups that some of you all use. One sticking, complex rope knots, rappelling, etc is not for me. Its not worth the risk. Atleast if you have sticks or steps up the tree somebody else could climb up to you. If you one stick up and something happens its game over. Keep it safe and simple.