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Saddle Fall
- Thread starter BuffaloBill
- Start date
So it’s your belief that tree stand suppliers should ship a stand and harness and a piece of rope and expect users to tie their own hitch for getting rope around tree to use as tether?
If I could take a minute and turn the direction here for a moment.... the guy who fell out of the tree was airlifted to a hospital. I work as a Flight Paramedic. Due to the "Mechanism of Injury" the ground ambulance crew made the reasonable determination to call for air medical to get the guy to the hospital in the "Golden Hour". If such an event were to happen to any of you, it is likely that you will also get a helicopter ride out of it. To be able to have a local helicopter service comes at quite a cost- not only do we do scene work (911 calls), we also do interfacility transfers of patients who are too sick or injured to stay in the hospital they're in, and need to go to a tertiary care center. It takes a tremendous amount of resources and training to be able to provide this service. The average cost of keeping an air medical service in operation in a single location is $3M annually. The reason I'm telling you all this is, this service comes at an enormous cost to the patient. An air medical bill is in excess of $30,000 - and usually in the $40k range. If we intubate you (put in a breathing tube and place you on a ventilator), or have to give you blood or provide hemodynamic management, the bill will be closer to $50k. Each helicopter service has agreements with the major insurance companies, for what the insurance will pay, which is generally in the mid-teens $15-18k. The balance of that bill goes to the patient. If the patient has Medicare/Medicaid that even worse - Medicaid/Medicare only pays around $6k, and the balance goes to the patient.
Almost every helicopter service has annual memberships. Ours is $50/yr and covers everyone in the household, and what it prevents is receiving a bill for the balance that your insurance company doesn't pay. I'm not sharing the name of my company here, and I'm not selling you anything. I only want to tell you this so that you might think about spending a few bucks to protect your financial future, because the cost of Air Medical is exorbitantly high. FWIW, Medicare/Medicaid have not updated their payment scheme for HEMS in over a decade, but that's a whole other argument. Anyway, maybe find out what Helicopter EMS (HEMS) company provides services for where you live or hunt, and inquire about what membership programs they offer. I would really hate to see any of you get a bill for an air medical transport. Another option is to inquire with your insurance company and find out what exactly they do cover for a air medical transport. With our company, there is a 5 day waiting period, from the time you purchase the membership, until you can use it. It seems that's typical among the various companies in the industry. There are some states - like Maryland, who's scene work is done by the State Police Helicopters (Trooper 1 - 7), and I don't think Trooper charges a fee, since Maryland tax dollars provide that service. Trooper doesn't do hospital to hospital transports though, and depending which Hospital you're going from and to, will determine which Helicopter service will likely transport you. If you live in Virginia or Maryland, feel free to PM me and I'd be glad to help you find out which HEMS service is in your area. Anyway, take a few minutes and find out what's available in your area, so in the event something awful happens and you or someone in your household needs transported from a scene or a hospital by air, you don't get an enormous bill.
Almost every helicopter service has annual memberships. Ours is $50/yr and covers everyone in the household, and what it prevents is receiving a bill for the balance that your insurance company doesn't pay. I'm not sharing the name of my company here, and I'm not selling you anything. I only want to tell you this so that you might think about spending a few bucks to protect your financial future, because the cost of Air Medical is exorbitantly high. FWIW, Medicare/Medicaid have not updated their payment scheme for HEMS in over a decade, but that's a whole other argument. Anyway, maybe find out what Helicopter EMS (HEMS) company provides services for where you live or hunt, and inquire about what membership programs they offer. I would really hate to see any of you get a bill for an air medical transport. Another option is to inquire with your insurance company and find out what exactly they do cover for a air medical transport. With our company, there is a 5 day waiting period, from the time you purchase the membership, until you can use it. It seems that's typical among the various companies in the industry. There are some states - like Maryland, who's scene work is done by the State Police Helicopters (Trooper 1 - 7), and I don't think Trooper charges a fee, since Maryland tax dollars provide that service. Trooper doesn't do hospital to hospital transports though, and depending which Hospital you're going from and to, will determine which Helicopter service will likely transport you. If you live in Virginia or Maryland, feel free to PM me and I'd be glad to help you find out which HEMS service is in your area. Anyway, take a few minutes and find out what's available in your area, so in the event something awful happens and you or someone in your household needs transported from a scene or a hospital by air, you don't get an enormous bill.
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Be careful someone doesn't tie you into a figure 8 with a bite talking like that...
I like your style.I hope he recovers OK. People have complained about all my attachment points but I just wave them off. It makes me feel better being backed up.
NO knots for me. Newbie and I stick to the pre made stitched loops like tethrd and rock climbing manufactures sell.
I guess I know my limits and accept them. =)
Glad the guy who fell is going to be OK
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Second place for post of the year for me. Thank you for sharing what seems like a no Brainer if you regularly put yourself at risk of severe injury a long way from help.
Did you completely miss the part of this post where a knot did fail on what has been described as a "great person" by one of his friends on here? I'm not going to ask that member if he had to "lead his friend around so he didn't trip over his own feet" or if the guy was "able to tie his own shoes" because I think we all know the answers to those questions. Hyperbole doesn't help the situation. The fact of the matter is that mistakes happen by competent people because of moments of inattentiveness or simply because they don't understand something as well as they think they do. My very first boss after college used to say "it's not what you don't know that hurts you the most, it's what you think you know that you don't". I think that applies here.
My back up tether is tied to the tree below my main tether and I have a short bridge on the linemans belt loops of a battle belt clipped into the carabiner on my main tether. I have taken many rope rescue, swift water rescue, farm rescue, High Angle Rescue I and II and I trust a figure 8 I tie and dress myself over anything. Stress the Dress, and ALWAYS stopper knot with a 6 inch tag. Just my opinion from 32 years volunteer fire and 38 Rescue.
The only stupid question is the 1u don't ask.... unfortunately people have egos and "reputation" to uphold and it seems people like that think it makes them look bad to ask silly/stupid questions.... prima Donna maybe be the right word...I seen it with welders my whole working career...they know the best/correct way to do it even if it isn't the best way...even when I show them a better way they "done it forever their way and it is fine"
Thoughts on getting broadheads insanely sharp?
I cant lie, this summer I fell into the heavy arrow, fixed head fad. After tinkering with it all summer long, and never seeing the light, I went back to a well balanced arrow with a fixed 3 blade broadhead. Now, I have killed two deer thus far with this set up and I could not be happier. One was...
saddlehunter.com
post #11 in this thread. Completely unrelated to safety.
If i fall from a tree, please dont start a huge thread or multiple threads telling others to be safe. just blame me for failing to do certain things.
yep they send an instructional video with them for the stand and the harness so why not for a knot. Unless I'm mistaken this failure was by using a treestand manufactures idea of a rope and eye.
What are you doing with all those backups? They just get in the way and you will never need them. I can't see carrying all those useless ropes and extra knots. They weigh a few extra ounces and will slow your climb up the tree. Come on man. Get with the program.
Not to confuse anyone. I have no problem if someone wants to use sown eyes or whatever else factory made. But learning how to tie knots may save your life one day and they are not hard to learn how to tie them and how to use them. Not knowing how to tie them may cost you your life one day also. Using gear not as designed can as well. My point is if you can tie your shoes you can learn to tie a figure 8. And learning is the way to better improve you and the world around you. So everyone make their own mind up about tying knots or using factory splices but everybody should learn their equipment and the safe use of it. And always inspect your equipment before use.
You are mistaken. The fellow appears to have used the rope given with a stand as a lifeline, and tied his own knot.
We don't disagree that knowledge is important, and taking control of your life and initiative in things you do is valuable. My concern is that the levers you can pull and dials you can turn to teach people those skills are more useful with young children. Admitting that folks have other things on their minds besides tying a good knot the right way is not giving up on people having personal responsibility. It's accepting reality, and working together to engineer controls that make people safer. A nice compromise, if you ask me, is to not promote self reliance on the internet, which enables poor decision making and proud feelings. Instead, acknowledge that some folks will do their own thing regardless of help or advice, and let them. For everyone else, steer them in the direction of commercially available products. Don't make someone feel like a lemming because they can't tie a knot.
I agree and I hope I didn't come across to hard. I didn't mean to. I'm just trying to show the other side of the coin, that knots(such as the figure 8) are easy and very useful for everyday life not just life safety and learning them and their proper use is way better than just buying something pre made.