Tethered in Petersen's Bowhunting Equipment Issue

[Gibbon]

No one really questions whether amsteel is strong. It's crazy strong. But it is designed for winch work. For that purpose, it is made with nearly zero stretch. That means the fibers are not going to stretch around a narrow radius. They can bend around it, but with considerable stress on the outside of the curve that eventually can lead to breakage of fibers. This information comes straight from Samson Rope, the amsteel manufacturer. I recommend caution, regular inspection and conservative retirement time.

 

[Apex7]

It's official. I wonder if we'll see a flood.

It's a nice article and they mention Areohunter, Wildedge, Tethrd and JX3. It's in the June 2019 issue. The article is called Saddle up & Ride and it covers saddles past and present and saddle safety and comfort. It's a must read.

 

[Vtbow]

As far as trolling goes, I prefer flicker shads at 2.3 mph. A lot more productive than this nonsense.

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Don't really get what exaclty this is in reference too other than the fishing part, but its all good.

 

[BayouBeauxhunter]

I completely disagree with this. Manufacturer reccomendations on retiring of equipment are based upond tons and tons of testing and data and also based upon inspectable and unseen defects due to regular use. Characteristics of materials used in out gear change as they experience general wear and tear, as well as environmental exposure.

And I'm not trying to convince myself of anything, especially not one manufacturer or the other.

Really? And other than years of use, how would one know if they’ve met or exceeded unsafe conditions from factory data? Do you bring thermometers with you to know if you’ve exceeded unsafe temps from high friction? It’s ridiculous to think you need to know all the specs. When they are comparing ropes to know which one performs better under certain conditions, they are controlling for other variables. It would be impossible to know if your equipment is safe solely going off of factory specs, because you don’t know if other problematic variables have been introduced to your setup. If you read info from Sampson they say there are no rules or industry guidelines to establish when a rope should be retired. There are simply too many variables. They do however give a guide on rope inspection that you should use.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

Really? And other than years of use, how would one know if they’ve met or exceeded unsafe conditions from factory data? Do you bring thermometers with you to know if you’ve exceeded unsafe temps from high friction? It’s ridiculous to think you need to know all the specs. When they are comparing ropes to know which one performs better under certain conditions, they are controlling for other variables. It would be impossible to know if your equipment is safe solely going off of factory specs, because you don’t know if other problematic variables have been introduced to your setup. If you read info from Sampson they say there are no rules or industry guidelines to establish when a rope should be retired. There are simply too many variables. They do however give a guide on rope inspection that you should use.

Good point and worth sharing here.

https://www.samsonrope.com/docs/def...ement_vertical_format_hr.pdf?sfvrsn=2052082_2

 

[Nutterbuster]

As far as trolling goes, I prefer flicker shads at 2.3 mph. A lot more productive than this nonsense.

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I don't think vtbow is trolling. He's asking intelligent questions in a respectful manner. I think folks in this forum appreciate hard numbers and tech talk, and don't always buy into the mainstream. They don't inherently trust marketing videos on YouTube. As a guy who makes YouTube videos, I definitely don't trust YouTube videos. They let any old fool make'em!

Post #24 talks about concern over folks not interacting and asking questions. Folks are asking questions, they're being answered, and there isn't any name calling or bad mouthing.

This ain't Facebook.

 

[Vtbow]

Really? And other than years of use, how would one know if they’ve met or exceeded unsafe conditions from factory data? Do you bring thermometers with you to know if you’ve exceeded unsafe temps from high friction? It’s ridiculous to think you need to know all the specs. When they are comparing ropes to know which one performs better under certain conditions, they are controlling for other variables. It would be impossible to know if your equipment is safe solely going off of factory specs, because you don’t know if other problematic variables have been introduced to your setup. If you read info from Sampson they say there are no rules or industry guidelines to establish when a rope should be retired. There are simply too many variables. They do however give a guide on rope inspection that you should use.

Actually a lot of ropes are rated for specific fall factor, and/or a number if falls at certain fall factors. They also definitely rated for age, regardless of use. These are relevant questions. Ovbiously everyone should check you own gear regularly for visual signs of wear.

 

[Vtbow]

Anyway...this thread has completely been derailed by many parties. It was a cool article about saddle hunting in general and included many different manufacturers. Let's all move on, or start a new thread and talk testing and specs.

 

[Islandshooter]

I think the video shows good business acumen. Utilizing another entity's brand equity to promote yours without having to be subject to their fees and regulations is sharp.

So is protecting your business from competition via legal threats.

And preorders allow you to start making money and building capital immediately. It also helps you to beat competition to the punch.

Tethrd has proven itself to be quite capable.

Yep, couldn't have said it better!!

 

[BassBoysLLP]

No doubt the additional testing will happen. Its common sense and good business. The basic testing is done. Other more rigorous testing is in sight (e.g. ASTM F2128). Do you know another saddle hunting equipment provider who tests all their equipment to these standards? If so, please let the community know! The community deserves safe equipment!!!

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[Nutterbuster]

No doubt the additional testing will happen. Its common sense and good business. The basic testing is done. Other more rigorous testing is in sight (e.g. ASTM F2128). Do you know another saddle hunting equipment provider who tests all their equipment to these standards? If so, please let the community know! The community deserves safe equipment!!!

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Common sense and good business is to figure out all of this before you launch the product. This allows you time to remedy any potential issues. It can prevent gen 2 products from being necessary before preorders have even been fulfilled.

But it can also delay product launch, and potentially allow competitors time to be first movers. It's a trade-off.

It is true that other manufacturers have not publicized test results for marketing purposes. However, given that they have been in the harness business for over 30 years, and have a reputation for following relevant industry standards and overbuilding products, I believe they have less liability than a new company that already has a broken product on the shelves.

 

[BayouBeauxhunter]

Common sense and good business is to figure out all of this before you launch the product. This allows you time to remedy any potential issues. It can prevent gen 2 products from being necessary before preorders have even been fulfilled.

But it can also delay product launch, and potentially allow competitors time to be first movers. It's a trade-off.

It is true that other manufacturers have not publicized test results for marketing purposes. However, given that they have been in the harness business for over 30 years, and have a reputation for following relevant industry standards and overbuilding products, I believe they have less liability than a new company that already has a broken product on the shelves.

Are you talking about saddles or platforms? Are there industry standards on platforms?

 

[flinginairos]

Are you talking about saddles or platforms? Are there industry standards on platforms?

I believe he’s referring to the handful of Gen1 Predators that had issues. Not sure what he means by launching before it was ready to beat the completion. As far as I know there wasn’t another platform being developed at that time.


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[BassBoysLLP]

Are you talking about saddles or platforms? Are there industry standards on platforms?

Platform testing is the same as tree stand testing. ASTM has several standard methods.:

ASTM F2125, Standard Test Method for Treestand Static Stability

ASTM F2126, Standard Test Method for Treestand Static Load Capacity

ASTM F2127, Standard Test Method for Treestand Adherence

ASTM F2128, Standard Test Method for Treestand Repetitive Loading Capability

ASTM F2337, Standard Test Method for Treestand Fall Arrest Systems


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[BayouBeauxhunter]

Platform testing is the same as tree stand testing. ASTM has several standard methods.:

ASTM F2125, Standard Test Method for Treestand Static Stability

ASTM F2126, Standard Test Method for Treestand Static Load Capacity

ASTM F2127, Standard Test Method for Treestand Adherence

ASTM F2128, Standard Test Method for Treestand Repetitive Loading Capability

ASTM F2337, Standard Test Method for Treestand Fall Arrest Systems


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I figured he was talking about gen 1’s. I was just curious if the other platforms on the market were tested with these standards? I heard the podium had some weld issues that needed to be fixed after they were put on the market.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

I figured he was talking about gen 1’s. I was just curious if the other platforms on the market were tested with these standards? I heard the podium had some weld issues that needed to be fixed after they were put on the market.

I question it too. It would interesting to know. For example, consider a platform with a claimed weight limit of 400 lbs. Per ASTM F2126, the static load test must pass with a safety factor of 2 or more. So the platform needs to hold at least 800 lbs without failure or permanent deformation. If it bends at 300 lbs, it has a demonstrating weight rating of 150 lbs.

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[Vtbow]

I question it too. It would interesting to know. For example, consider a platform with a claimed weight limit of 400 lbs. Per ASTM F2126, the static load test must pass with a safety factor of 2 or more. So the platform needs to hold at least 800 lbs without failure or permanent deformation. If it bends at 300 lbs, it has a demonstrating weight rating of 150 lbs.

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I completely agree, everything should be held to the same standards. According to Ernie that's why the Gen2 predator happened, the Gen1 fell below the advertised 300# mark with the needed safety factor...

 

[BayouBeauxhunter]

I completely agree, everything should be held to the same standards. According to Ernie that's why the Gen2 predator happened, the Gen1 fell below the advertised 300# mark with the needed safety factor...

So why do you think Tethrd is the only one who gets called out? Do you have faith that the other two companies will do it on their own or have done it already? I don’t have a problem with holding the companies accountable to show the results, but it just seems like there’s been a double standard lately.

 

[Vtbow]

So why do you think Tethrd is the only one who gets called out? Do you have faith that the other two companies will do it on their own or have done it already? I don’t have a problem with holding the companies accountable to show the results, but it just seems like there’s been a double standard lately.

That's a good quetion/point and worth discussing! I think you have a few factors that play into this:

1) Tethrd is a completely new company, first time manufacturing/sourcing etc. Other companies(just an example OOAL, or lonewolf with the new assisn, etc) have been manufacturing, testing and selling TREESTANDS for years. They have established relationships for sourcing, testing facilities, and specific product launch protocols. I believe OOAL was originally part of the TMA(not sure if they are anymore, that would be a question for them).
2) Tethrd had sourcing and manufacturing issues from the beginning, they over promised and under delivered in many different ways. I think that leads to more valid scrutiny from consumers in general.
3)Tethrd launched and sold products prior to really having them manufactured and communication channels established. This meant early adopters were really doing a lot of the real life testing for them, and people representing Tethrd were not always on the same page in answering how to, or funtionality question. The perfect example is "toehook the Predator to get it to lock in tight"...... no wait..."do not toehoook the predator".

All the above lead to more scrutiny from a consciousness consumer.

 

[kyler1945]

So why do you think Tethrd is the only one who gets called out? Do you have faith that the other two companies will do it on their own or have done it already? I don’t have a problem with holding the companies accountable to show the results, but it just seems like there’s been a double standard lately.

I don't suspect anyone is being called out. I think there are questions being asked, given the content being sent out in the world. It's not a double standard - Tethrd published content claiming they did some testing. People asked questions. There's no questions to ask of anyone else because they are not at the table to be questioned. Also, they SHOULD be questioned. And to my eye, they've responded to the questions being asked of them with good information. I also acknowledge that there's a subtext to the conversation that's largely being ignored or skimmed over. But for the average guy looking in here, they'll get some good technical information. What is the extreme aversion to conversation these days?