Tethered in Petersen's Bowhunting Equipment Issue

[Jefferson10940]

I find amsteel to be crazy impressive. Frigging amazes me. So strong and it floats. It is really nice how smoothly it slides through the biner. I have no problem trusting amsteel for any of our applications. And after watching your testing at the TMA site, even though nothing is "TMA certified" I am even more impressed. Thanks for taking the time and money to go through the process.

 

[outbackjack]

All you worriers realize that AmSteel was designed to replace steel cable on whinches right ?

 

[Vtbow]

All you worriers realize that AmSteel was designed to replace steel cable on whinches right ?

Yup, and to be wrapped around the winch drum, not a caribiner without a thimble to hold a specific bend radius. It's definitely super strong.

 

[flinginairos]

Yup, and to be wrapped around the winch drum, not a caribiner without a thimble to hold a specific bend radius. It's definitely super strong.

But if it breaks the carabiner during testing why worry about it? It’s pretty clear to me there’s no way we can break it in our application.


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[Vtbow]

But if it breaks the carabiner during testing why worry about it? It’s pretty clear to me there’s no way we can break it in our application.


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I completely hear ya. Probably not going to break--at least not with zero wear. But, It's the repetitive sliding back and forth of the bridge on the biner flattening the hollow core rope, in conjunction with the tight bend radius. And then there's the question of if people are using round spine biners, beam style biners(like an omega), etc. How does heat and friction impact the strength? does it? Hows does this motion when the bridge is wet effect strength?

Since you're one of the "founding fathers"--whats manufacturer life expectancy of the amsteel bridge? Is it the same as the saddle itself?

I guess it just baffles me that a life support product, such as a saddle, was released and sold using a product not designed for this application, without having done this extensive testing. Sorry, but it just makes me question everything.

 

[Adrena123]

 

[Gamover06]

I completely hear ya. Probably not going to break--at least not with zero wear. But, It's the repetitive sliding back and forth of the bridge on the biner flattening the hollow core rope, in conjunction with the tight bend radius. And then there's the question of if people are using round spine biners, beam style biners(like an omega), etc. How does heat and friction impact the strength? does it? Hows does this motion when the bridge is wet effect strength?

Since you're one of the "founding fathers"--whats manufacturer life expectancy of the amsteel bridge? Is it the same as the saddle itself?

I guess it just baffles me that a life support product, such as a saddle, was released and sold using a product not designed for this application, without having done this extensive testing. Sorry, but it just makes me question everything.

WOW!!!! Sounds to me like you have a lot on your mind. It seems like they have done several test to prove that it is going to hold up. I have not seen any other saddle companies come out with any test results or platforms for that matter. Just because other saddle companies are using material that you feel are safer (then something made for winching heaving machinery) does not mean that their seams will hold up.

 

[Vtbow]

WOW!!!! Sounds to me like you have a lot on your mind. It seems like they have done several test to prove that it is going to hold up. I have not seen any other saddle companies come out with any test results or platforms for that matter. Just because other saddle companies are using material that you feel are safer (then something made for winching heaving machinery) does not mean that their seams will hold up.

Coming from a professional rock climbing background, there are materials which are industry standard. This is a new use for Amsteel, so I'm skeptical.

Other saddle companies use materials which are industry standard in both the climbing and arborist world...no reason to test them in this application, the manufacturer did.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

I must admit @Vtbow that I was also very skeptical about using amsteel in this application. In my opinion though the testing that the Tethrd crew has done to date has made me feel a lot better about it. I actually believe I used amsteel in a more rigorous application than a saddle bridge all last season. The daisy chain I used to attach my Predator saw way more abrasion, probably higher loads, fairly tight radii on the post against one loop always and several Brummels and was exposed to wet conditions all year (it rained a lot last year). It has held up very well over more than 100 uses of the Predator . Only time will tell on the effect of long term element exposure but I must say I was pleasantly surprised with the results I have witnessed.

 

[flinginairos]

Coming from a professional rock climbing background, there are materials which are industry standard. This is a new use for Amsteel, so I'm skeptical.

Other saddle companies use materials which are industry standard in both the climbing and arborist world...no reason to test them in this application, the manufacturer did.

You use carbon bolts don’t you?


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[Vtbow]

You use carbon bolts don’t you?


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Yup, a DIY solution, not sold to the public from a commercial company ... with an industry standard linemans belt.

 

[Vtbow]

I must admit @Vtbow that I was also very skeptical about using amsteel in this application. In my opinion though the testing that the Tethrd crew has done to date has made me feel a lot better about it. I actually believe I used amsteel in a more rigorous application than a saddle bridge all last season. The daisy chain I used to attach my Predator saw way more abrasion, probably higher loads, fairly tight radii on the post against one loop always and several Brummels and was exposed to wet conditions all year (it rained a lot last year). It has held up very well over more than 100 uses of the Predator . Only time will tell on the effect of long term element exposure but I must say I was pleasantly surprised with the results I have witnessed.

Awesome, Great to hear! I'm not against it by any means, just think it's relevant to note that it is a new application, and hasn't been tested in the exact application and elements thoroughly...And is now being sold for that such application.

 

[Vtbow]

You use carbon bolts don’t you?


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And what's is the advertised/expected lifespan of the commercially sold amsteel bridge?

 

[flinginairos]

And what's is the advertised/expected lifespan of the commercially sold amsteel bridge?

I don’t personally know. I’m sure it will completely depend on how it’s taken care of and how often it’s used, just like any other rope. This is where inspection of your gear is critical. Amsteel or not.


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[Vtbow]

I don’t personally know. I’m sure it will completely depend on how it’s taken care of and how often it’s used, just like any other rope. This is where inspection of your gear is critical. Amsteel or not.


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That being said, does tethrd know? Is the reccomended lifespan of the bridge as long as the reccomended lifespan of the saddle? Or should it be retired and replaced halfway through the lifespan of the saddle? What is the advertised lifespan of the saddle?

These are the things manufacturers of life saving/support systems have tested for and know prior to selling because they use industry standard materials....

 

[flinginairos]

That being said, does tethrd know? Is the reccomended lifespan of the bridge as long as the reccomended lifespan of the saddle? Or should it be retired and replaced halfway through the lifespan of the saddle? What is the advertised lifespan of the saddle?

These are the things manufactures of life saving/support systems have tested for and know prior to selling because they use industry standard materials....

Agreed, and Ernie and Greg may know and have a plan for that so I’ll let them answer that question. I’m just saying I don’t personally know but it is something that is important in this business for sure.


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[BayouBeauxhunter]

I completely hear ya. Probably not going to break--at least not with zero wear. But, It's the repetitive sliding back and forth of the bridge on the biner flattening the hollow core rope, in conjunction with the tight bend radius. And then there's the question of if people are using round spine biners, beam style biners(like an omega), etc. How does heat and friction impact the strength? does it? Hows does this motion when the bridge is wet effect strength?

Since you're one of the "founding fathers"--whats manufacturer life expectancy of the amsteel bridge? Is it the same as the saddle itself?

I guess it just baffles me that a life support product, such as a saddle, was released and sold using a product not designed for this application, without having done this extensive testing. Sorry, but it just makes me question everything.

For a second there I thought I was reading an offshoot of a tootsie pop commercial “How many slides through a biner does it take to get to the center of an amsteel bridge?” Lol. Sounds like you are trying hard to convince yourself that the kestrel is the right saddle for you. It’s ok man, nobody is going to look down on you for not using a mantis. People should be inspecting their ropes anyway rather than relying on “industry standards” to tell them when to retire their rope.

 

[Vtbow]

Agreed, and Ernie and Greg may know and have a plan for that so I’ll let them answer that question. I’m just saying I don’t personally know but it is something that is important in this business for sure.


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Thanks for always keeping an open mind and discussing all angles of gear and such. I appreciate and value your input and opinion.

 

[Vtbow]

For a second there I thought I was reading an offshoot of a tootsie pop commercial “How many slides through a biner does it take to get to the center of an amsteel bridge?” Lol. Sounds like you are trying hard to convince yourself that the kestrel is the right saddle for you. It’s ok man, nobody is going to look down on you for not using a mantis. People should be inspecting their ropes anyway rather than relying on “industry standards” to tell them when to retire their rope.

I completely disagree with this. Manufacturer reccomendations on retiring of equipment are based upond tons and tons of testing and data and also based upon inspectable and unseen defects due to regular use. Characteristics of materials used in out gear change as they experience general wear and tear, as well as environmental exposure.

And I'm not trying to convince myself of anything, especially not one manufacturer or the other.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

As far as trolling goes, I prefer flicker shads at 2.3 mph. A lot more productive than this nonsense.

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